Many women feminists and non-feminists don't have a clue regarding relationships. We can see this in our society with the divorce rate. We also see it with regards to both mysogyny and misandry. The truth of the matter is that due to men and women being socialized differently we have this conflict. Women have made great strides in achieving equality and bringing attention to issues involving women and their interests. However, their movement has lead to something for which they have no answer, the marginalization of men.
Women how would you feel if you had to endure this cirumstances:
1) be rejected for your lack of financial security or career success
2) be expected to pay for the attention of the opposite sex.
3) be expected to love the opposite sex and not receive the same love in return
4) be expected to pay for children which you have no enforceable parental rights and/or visitation.
5) be expected to pay for the opposite sex livelihood even after the relationship has failed.
6) be the blame oftentimes incorrectly for the failure of relationships
and lastly
7) be the overwhelming problem for the opposite sex and their plight.
I see some valid points, however this is a two way street, there is no perfect answer.
I'll give you my honest opinion on each point you make.
1)We're rejected when we earn financial security or career success.
2)Are you talking about dates? No one should have to pay for the attention of the opposite sex. Unfortunately, society labels men who do not pay for dates as passive and weak.
Society also labels women who do pay for dates as controlling and b*tchy. There's no winning on this one.
If you're talking about paying for sex, well...that's one I won't go into.
3)That goes both ways, there are plenty of women who love and do not recieve love in return.
4)I'm a firm believer that both parents should pay for their children, it took two to make the child.
However, I don't condone witholding visitation rights of either parent.
5)No, no, no, no and no again!!! I don't believe in Alimony.
6)Sometimes women are falsely blamed for failed relationships, too.
7)Ditto...
It's very telling that the women so far have no answer to this question except to attack the questioner. In other words, they tacitly admit defeat.
are you serious??? men's lives are not any harder than the lives of women. both genders' lives are probably difficult.
1) be rejected for your lack of financial security or career success
Answer: This is not always true. If it were, many lower income people would not be married. And, for those who do look for financial stability in a partner, I'd venture to say that feminism did not cause this. This sort of phenomenon has been around a lot longer than feminism has. You might even speculate that it has its roots in a patriarchal ideology. After all, in times past, women were expected to be financially dependent on their husbands.
2) be expected to pay for the attention of the opposite sex.
Answer: Yes, there's a cost to everything in life...and men aren't the only ones who pay. Many women spend a good bit of money to attract men (sexy clothes, make up, jewelry, nice shoes)...and they invest other things...like time, energy, and thought into trying to get the attention of the opposite sex. Yes, men usually pay for dinner, dates...particularly the first ones, and they often have to be the first to ask. It's been that way for a long, long time...again, you can probably thank patriarchal ideology for that. This phenomenon was around a long time before feminism. Feminism actually encourages women to do more of the asking, more of the risk-taking in relationships...more of the "paying for dates", too.
3) be expected to love the opposite sex and not receive the same love in return
Answer: This one needs a little more clarification. You don't have to love everyone. Not all females are particularly lovable (same with males!) Pick and choose who you want to love (carefully), and if you feel like it's not going anywhere, or you're being used, manipulated, or giving far more than you're getting in return, then it's time to consider moving on.
4) be expected to pay for children which you have no enforceable parental rights and/or visitation.
Answer: This is simply not true. You do have parental rights, and you will have visitation, unless you've done something (pretty terrible, I might add) to have those rights taken away. It takes two to create a life, and regardless of whether or not the parents stay together, it is the responsibility of both parents to financially support the child.
5) be expected to pay for the opposite sex livelihood even after the relationship has failed.
Answer: Alimony is a controversial topic, and generally speaking, it's not the poor and middle class folk who get granted alimony...it's the rich. I don't like the idea of alimony myself. I think that if a woman (or man) is temporarily unable to provide for him/herself due to having no job skills (take a stay at home mom for instance, who, married for 20 years, raised kids, finds she has no marketable skills with which to obtain employment)...she's going to need some sort of help...but is it the ex-husband's duty to provide that help? Some say yes...because he is assumed to have benefited from her staying at home raising the kids, and had she not done this, she might be able to support herself now. There are, however, programs for displaced homemakers which could help her get job training or a college education.
6) be the blame oftentimes incorrectly for the failure of relationships
and lastly
Answer: This is one that I can't find any argument with. Yes, when it comes to break ups, women tend to blame the men. Men tend to blame themselves. Usually though, blame can be found on both sides. Getting stuck in the blame game only prolongs the bitterness. Eventually, for health's sake, gotta let it go.
7) be the overwhelming problem for the opposite sex and their plight.
Answer: Again, this needs more clarification. What is their plight?
I'm trying not to laugh at what a pathetic picture you're painting.
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Seriously, get over yourself. Enough with the pity party.
@ksoileau
More likely we don't take this as a serious question, but more of a rant or whine.
@They whiney guy who asked this question :
" From: roughruggedraw
Subject: You're a typical *****
Message: When men espouse an opinion that women don't agree with, your response is typical. We're whiners because we have issues too with regards to gender. I wonder if you'd appreciate that regarding women's issues. You expect a lot of men but aren't willing to give anything and wonder why there is so much misogyny in the world. How about a little fairness? How about a litlle compassion for the other gender? One thing you can give men credit for is, that as you so called human beings called women point out that we control the legislative and judicial systems of this country, we're willing to listen and give the other gender a forum to where their gripes and concerns are heard and taken into consideration. I despise women such as yourself. I'd love to see how you would handle being a man for six months. I think the majority of your kind would commit suicide and the world would be a better place for it. "
That's pretty harsh, eh? But you're still amusing.
You spend a lot of time whining. It's funny.
The fact that you dropped the *****-bomb right off the bat, marks you as a typically misogynist specimen of the internet. Hide behind that computer screen, honey.
I give immense respect to men and women who deserve it. You don't deserve it. You're a whiney loser, bitching about how bad men have it--when really you just mean yourself.
"we're willing to listen and give the other gender a forum" Many men are, yes. They're good people. You're not. As I said previously, you're a whiney loser and somewhat of an ******. I'm glad I don't know any worthless pieces of garbage like yourself in real life. I only know men in real life. You don't qualify.
Have a good one, and keep up the good work. I need something to laugh at ;)
Alex
1. Many women don't reject men because they aren't successful enough. When I met my husband he didn't even have a job. When we got married he made minimum wage and worked at a local hotel. I didn't care a bit. When my brother got married he didn't have a job or a house; he and his wife lived with my parents for six months before he was finally able to find work. Some women don't care so much about his financial state, because they realize that the work ethic he has will make up for lack of wealth. Perhaps you need to find yourself some less shallow women.
2. Many women don't expect a man to pay for all their dates and stuff. Alot of women these days prefer to go dutch because they hate the thought of a man paying for them.
3. Whoa whoa whoa. What are you talking about? You don't really think that women don't love their husbands in return, now do you? That smacks of bitterness.
4. That one, I agree. That is not fair to the father at all - he must pay for his children but he isn't allowed to visit them. That's not right. I'd be furious and I'd fight it tooth and nail were I to find myself in such a position.
5. Also agree. It's not fair for someone to be able to divorce their spouse and make them pay through the nose. That would also make me furious!
6. This happens to women too. It sucks when it happens but it isn't only men who get blamed for relationship failures.
7. Men aren't really women's overwhelming problem. You're just a scapegoat. It isn't very fair at all. I wouldn't enjoy being on the receiving end of that either.
It has been said that the reason women live longer is that men have to put up with them.
Hm, I'd feel pretty bad. But then, I have never expected a man to do any of those things either. Neither has my boyfriend been expected to do any of those things - I just asked him and he laughed and said that was daft. This is a 30 something year old man who has had quite a lot of experience with women. I guess men should just pick their partners more wisely, as women should too.
They would get desperate and clingy and start conforming to an idiotic society and the views the media portrays about how women should act. If this included dressing like slUts then tis is what they would do. If it included being an "independent" woman or fembot then yadayada
Oh Wait......................... :)
Let me turn this around on you:
Many male feminists and non-feminists don't have a clue regarding relationships. We can see this in our society in our divorce rate. We can see the effect of millenia of restrictive patriarchies by looking at today's mysogyny and misandry. Women HAVE made great strides, but there is more to be done. Unfortunately, many men are upset their promotion was given to (*gasp*) a woman, and claim they are now being oppressed and marginalized.
Men, how would you feel if you had to endure these circumstances:
1) Much higher probability of rape than your opposite gender, at the hands of your opposite gender, with a 6% chance your rapist will serve time in jail (for American women).
2) Not taken seriously by many people because of your gender (worldwide)
3) 100% chance of sexual assault and/or harassment. In America 1 woman is sexually assaulted every 2 minutes. (probably worldwide too)
4) Constantly face stereotypes which are often contradictory to other stereotypes also shoved in your face every single day by oblivious males AND brainwashed females. (worldwide)
5) Be rejected for your lack of financial success or career success OR be rejected because of it (often linked to a supposed lack of appropriate 'femininity' or 'womanliness').(This hapens mostly in industrialized countries which allow women into the workplace).
6) Oftentimes be incorrectly blamed for the failure of relationships and lastly (worldwide)
7) Have to deal with living in an overwhelming patriarchal world which for the most part is happily unaware of or simply apathetic to its poor treatment of females. (worldwide)
- - - - - -
Aren't you glad you're a man?
We could all have a pity party if we so chose, but let's not. Instead, you should grow the **** up already and look at number seven on your list. If you are disturbed by the plight women are facing worldwide, do something about it.
So answer this...
Men how would you feel if you had to endure these circumstances:
1) be rejected for your lack of beauty and grace and know that you as a person will never be understood because you are just booty.
2) be expected to pay for the attention of the opposite sex with sex.
3) be expected to love and dote on the opposite sex and not receive the same love in return
4) be expected to raise children without the law enforcing help of the father.
5) be expected to give up your livelihood and try to pick it up again after the relationship has failed.
6) be the blame oftentimes incorrectly for the failure of relationships
and lastly
7) be the overwhelming problem for the opposite sex and their plight so much so it is written in the religious texts, into the laws of the land and into every culture that has ever existed?
I realize that men get the short end of the stick sometimes. This isn't right. However, you need to stand up for yourself and instead of saying women should stop sticking up for themselves so men never face the feeling of being unwanted is absurd. Start a mens movement.
they would go on big protest rallies
starve themselves and get what they want
it would be seen as very bad if a woman had to do the same things we do
its hippocritical....
You aren't unwanted. You are deeply loved and needed, even if some of you require a correction from time to time.
Would a nice thick sandwich and a slice of cake make you feel better?
AMEN!!!! Brother!
I think you are generalizing. I can really only speak from my own experience, but I'm not alone in this.
My guy:
1) Cannot have "career success" because of a disability. If we stay together, I will need to be the main financial provider. I have no problem with this.
2) I think it's a nice gesture if someone pays for me, just as it's a nice gesture if I pay for them. But it's certainly not required.
3) No idea what you're basing that on - but I can - and do - love deeply.
4) Not having children. Not applicable.
5) No way he ever could, nor would I expect him to.
6) I think it's normal in the initial time after a break-up for both parties to be angry and play the "blame game" a little. But after reflection I always realize how both contributed to the problem.
7). I only have a problem with particular men. Not men as a whole. Most of my friends are male, in fact.
Wow and I only wish I had not that problem dealing with Men.. Had a man that didn't support, I worked. I supported , He got the kids due to placement of law..
I don't blame him he is not with me, and can do that crap if someone is willing to put up with it.. I could care less..
I have learned. Since then..
And your crying about your experience , pretty funny..
Are really ALL women like the ones you describe?
For the same token, Are ALL men incapable of love and monogamy?
Many women can tell you the faults of some men, as we have fallen victim of some misogynistic, selfish guy at some point in our lives, perhaps more than once. Many of them apply this faults to ALL men, rather a percentage.
Whats Your story?
I strongly recommend talking it over with a more neutral audience. Here, you wont get a solution to your real problem, whatever that may be; you will only get rantings from various representatives of the two opposing sides, and some, not very intelligent, just full of hateful anger at the opposing side.
And as for rejection for lack of financial security, what circles do you move in, that you dont see that happening to women also?
How many rich men do you know that marry girls from council estates?
Which women do you lust after that make you pay for their attn?
Are they the ones found in street corners?
It can be argued that women get their hair done, nails painted, starve themselves, get their pubic area, legs, armpits and anal areas waxed (hot sticky substance that rips hair off by the roots), go to the gym excessively, moisturize obsessively, steal other sister's men, take forever to put make up on...all for the sake of finding AND keeping the love of a man.
@SoldierforChrist:
If you really feel that way about women, its safe to assume that you were not born from a woman's womb, but some other means?
Testosterone is what 'drives men to spread the seed'.
That same hormone is the one that wears out your bodies, hence being pre-programmed to die earlier, a design fault, if you will.
So, mother nature made males expire quicker and women a hormonal cocktail.
And still, it seems that we both have been using our brains for millions of years and have somehow managed to keep humanity going.. though.. if women live longer.. makes you wonder who's kept control of the helm for longer?
God created adam and eve, in that order.
A draft before the masterpiece, some wise owl said.
Ksoileau, is this more factual, in your opinion?
What a sad thing that you are in such a negative, bitter, and unhappy place in your life. Best wishes on your journey to self-acceptance, responsibility, and enlightenment.
be rejected for your lack of financial security or career success
my husbands looking for a new job but there isnt much around. He has been on minimum wage for nearly a year. why the hell would that matter? I still love him and think he is the most attractive fantastic husband and father i have ever know.
2) be expected to pay for the attention of the opposite sex.
He didnt do this. we shared it with each other as we were both on same wage at time
3) be expected to love the opposite sex and not receive the same love in return
I love him more than anything in this world except for our daughter.
4) be expected to pay for children which you have no enforceable parental rights and/or visitation.
N/A I wouldnt divorce
5) be expected to pay for the opposite sex livelihood even after the relationship has failed.
N/A i wouldnt divorce
6) be the blame oftentimes incorrectly for the failure of relationships
i dont really blame when relationships came to an end in my past. Some things are meant to be forever just see it as good whilst it lasted then move on.
7) be the overwhelming problem for the opposite sex and their plight.
Men have never been a problem to me. I find the ones I know caring, loving, wonderful people.
Yes lets go back to the good old days when women were
1)Judged soley on their looks or their families wealth
2) Expected to marry so someone would look after them, irrelevant of love
3)Considered an object belonging to their husband with no ideas of their own
4)Expected to bow and scrape to their husband and stay in relationships even with abusive men
5)At fault for everything from not keeping the house clean to not giving birth to sons instead of daughters
I feel bad for you that your life hasn't worked out well, but please don't blame all women. Perhaps be a 'man' and take responsibility for the choices you have made? But then, it's far easier to blame a woman.
I agree with the last guy..They don't have an answer, of course, I'll be regarded as sexist for saying this, but I'd be tupif to say that the genders are exactly the same in every area.
I believe that historically, men have had more power, however, there is no power without responsibility. Men are naturally power hungry, and as a result, have given themselves more responsibity than would be typically preferred.
Also, it stems back to times when we lived in caves and the men went hunting for mammoths. The decided that because they were the ones hunting the mammoth, they could enforce whatever rules they wanted. It's just natural, in other words, that men have more power, and therefore, must take more blame when things go wrong.
Not that I endorse that of course, I'm just simply stating facts.
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How would women feel if they were as unwanted as men?