Just flew from Burbank to Seattle on a 12:28pm flight Monday and was shocked to see the cheese and crackers plate instead of the usual sandwich and salad combo...
So I took a look at my May Sky Guide and still saw the "Lunch" designators... so I wonder if there is a catering mistake...
Well the story continues as I arrive back home last night and got my June Skyguide, and noticed the disappearing of a meal code from the BUR flights... except breakfast in the morning flights.
So there are some "enhancements" this month!
Other LA flights such as ONT/LAX/LGB/SNA did not seem to change...
But now my question is:
1. Why do they cut from BUR flight? My BUR to GEG ticket is more expensive than SAN-GEG ticket, and all the LA basin flights seem to have the same fares and the cheapest is always LGB.
2. What other enhancements are made this month?
I personally feel disappointed because the cost of upgrades will "increase" soon with no possibility of using miles to upgrade on cheaper fares, and yet Alaska continues to cut service in F by chopping the already "minimal" amenities and meals and snacks, and increasing the cost of upgrades or make them more difficult to obtain.
Anyway, I already emailed the Customer Care department, which also seems to run much slower than normal now.
Carfield :o
I'm curious if AS will ever offer ALL-F service ANC-SEA. No doubt that there are enough business persons going to/from Alaska who would pay for the service.
Then it should be called "big seat" class, because it is nothing more than BOB in a big seat. F is "premium offerings."
There's premium and then there's Premium, first class and FIRST CLASS.
Do you expect Dom Perignon or Opus One on domestic first class? Do you expect foie gras and lobster tails? Do you expect 18-21 year old whiskey versus Chivas 12 or Dewars? Or, XO cognac? What even ever happened to a nice sirloin or decent sized and decently cooked filet?
Well, you aren't going to get those things domestically...but, they could theoretically be available on the flight at a surcharge, and you could buy them on board at the airline's cost to make your flight more enjoyable, or not (your choice, depending on your budget and/or mood).
I guess it's a slippery slope, where F becomes nothing but a seat, but it doesn't have to be. It can a seat, plus certain base service/amenities; and then they can sell certain premium amenities that not everyone wants or cares about on an a la carte basis (why waste it on the whole cabin?).
Even some of the fanciest, most elite restaurants and hotels in the world charge a supplement for certain items when they offer a prix fixe meal -- the fact they do that doesn't imply that the other items are substandard or that the experience is minimalist and can't be enjoyed at the base cost, unless you pay the supplement for those extra items. Some pay the supplement, and some don't Even within a party, some do and some don't.
Some airlines do go all out, even on short flights. Try CX on a one hour flight from HJK-TPE: pretty darn good, including Krug and Lynch Bages (or the premium red of the month), and there are other anamolies.
But that level of service doesn't exist domestically, so no one is going to offer it as a base line level of service. And, as indicated above, AS is getting pretty close to providing "just a seat", when they offer no meal on a 3 hour "international" flight from LAX to YVR thru a meal time, and the general demise of the service to low quantity/low quality as described herein. I don;t think the bean counters do a good job of calculating the cost of lost revenue do to premium customers flying alternative carriers. They do a very good job calculating cost savings by eliminating things, but not the lost revenue impact/opportunity cost.
BTW, you can buy some of these things at the airport, but: (i) you technically aren't allowed to buy booze and drink it on board; and (ii) you are paying retail, whereas the airline is paying super wholesale -- so the delta is great -- and the airline has the ability to offer it to you at cost, as a perk of flying first class. I think the wholesale cost on a half bottle of Opus One or Dom Perignon is $25 or so (maybe a little more -- I was actually told the wholesale cost on a half bottle of DP is $20, but don't hold me to it). The airline doesn't have to make a profit on it to provide the amenity/benefit/allure -- just break even. Nor do these sales have to compete with duty free sales, if consumed on board.
I could see times where I would pay the airline's wholesale cost (25% or retail?) for certain offerings, maybe a half bottle of premium red, or a better meal than the chicken or ribs otherwise being offered. I don't think that demeans standard F service.
2 choices of ice cream, toppings or meals? I don't need a menu to decide between vanilla & chocolate or chocolate sauce or strawberries.:confused:
2 choices of meals
AA has learned this thru trial and error and is beefing back up its premium class service.That is what I was hearing about AA. They were offering a meal in F on EVERY flight over a certain amount of time. Not sure if they are still doing that after saving millions of dollars by removing that olive from the salad in F. I feel that AS wants to try and be the leader in cutting back in F and see if other airlines match. Funny that all this coincides with an increase in mileage redemption and the requirement for H fares for F. Getting $300+ for flights from SEA - LAX is not a bad gig. Other airlines have to fly cross country for the same fare.
I had a similar experience recently in F going RNO-SEA. Well, there weren't any nuts but the beverage and pretzels service was comparatively late in the flight with no obvious explanation and if I'd wanted a refill I would have had to track someone down.
I have to admit, I have never had that experience on AS. Even on short flights like san-sfo (1 hr 10 min) I have always been offered at least one beverage refill without having to ask. On a few of the early AM flights I was also offered pre-departure coffee. Too bad there seem to be a few lazy f/a's out there, because most of them do a really good job.
If you are talking about paying for a meal in F on top of the fare, it is not a great idea. Ever. Respectable food should come with the F fare, whatever it may be.
I had assumed that we were talking about Y meals. The idea is that F would have free meals.
sxf24 --
I can validate that. When I worked at AA, we did annual studies on this subject (internally and externally done). In a list of price and service offerings, price would always be #1 and food service would always be in the bottom 25% of the list.
That being said, this may be an example of a market research paradox: what people SAY they want and what they actually want may be two different things. We talk alot about food on this board. However, when forced to choose amongst a variety of price/service offerings, we choose price and comfort over food.
What people say they want and what they actually are willing to actually PAY for are two different things. Once you pull up those price quotes on airfares, well that low number usually gets the ticket. I lost MVPG status last yr due to change in job description requiring less travel. I no longer book AS if I have a lower cost similar schedule alternative for personal travel.
After not flying AS for a few years due to a change in work related trips, I just flew JNU-SEA a few weeks ago. I was shocked at how bad things had gotten. No meal. No second trip by FC attendent for drinks. No nut refill.
That is a great idea; better still would be to allow pre-order from a reasonable selection. I'd pay $15 for a decent breakfast or lunch and $25 for dinner - provided, as you say that you could pay with a CC, and get a receipt for expenses.
The risk of spoilage seems to be the biggest hang-up to offering such an option, though things like stand-bys and re-routes would be an issue as well, since catering decisions are made so early. So if you ordered the "fish and chips" for the 8:00pm LAX-SEA and then switched to the 7:15pm LAX-SEA flight at 6:00pm, your meal likely could not make it with you and then they have to both refund your money (which costs money on top of the money it costs to originally bill you and process the order) and then likely bin the meal on top of that.
I don't believe I've ever said that. I've been as embarassed as every other FA in the reduction of onboard amenities.Well the quote from 2005 that I was remembering was:
"People don't get on an airplane to get a healthy, delicious meal. That we serve food at all is a throwback to the old days of regulation when prices were set by the government and the ONLY thing that airlines could do to compete was to try to offer the most and best "creature comforts"."
I think I probably took your comment a little further then you intended. Nice to know that you are sympathic with the lack of meals in F on certain flights.
I know that AS Flyer always says we are only buying a ticket and we should not expect to be fed on the plane even in F
A little bit further? Are you a journalist? :rolleyes: Yeah, I wish we were serving meals again. It gave me something to do and a way to interact more with the customers. I also wish that my chosen career wasn't turned into a minimum wage job. Some things aren't likely to change. I know that sounds bitter, it's not meant to, I'm just trying to say that yes, even the employees wish we could go back to the old days - for more reasons than you know.
In general, flights that previously served a hot sandwich with side salad have switched to a fruit and cheese plate for lunch and half of a hot sandwich, plus a side salad, for dinner. They are also exploring some other roll options for the sandwich.
I encountered this on a recent "dinnertime" flight from Orange County to Seattle. I noticed that the previously generous-sized sandwich had been downsized to a half-san. With the salad, it was still a decent meal so I can't complain. Nevertheless, I will ;o)
My biggest gripe with food service in first class is that "mealtime" is a pretty hit-and-miss concept. It's really nice to be able to look forward to a meal on the plane regardless of the time of day and makes first class truly feel like first class. If I had my druthers, there'd be a meal on *every* FC flight over ~1.5 hours in length. I'd gladly give up a half a sandwich on flights that currently enjoy meal service (not to mention warm nuts, cookies, sundaes, and other snacks) in order to increase the number of flights that get meals. I assume that AS's market research puts me in the minority on this, otherwise they'd have gone this way, but if anyone at AS is reading this and cares there's at least one MVPG who feels this way.
You still get a first class seat..they are trying to save money like anyone else cutting back on food service..what are you going to do?..go to another airline that doesnt have food aswell?
Just flew from Burbank to Seattle on a 12:28pm flight Monday and was shocked to see the cheese and crackers plate instead of the usual sandwich and salad combo...
Hi Carfield! I'm sorry to hear about your disappointment in the food service on your recent flight. :( While I'm not that familiar with the business decisions involved in choosing what is served onboard, I've taken the liberty of forwarding your comments along to a manager that I know in the Inflight Food Service office. Bundle of Joy::
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Have you looked at other carriers coach products lately? Only CO and SY serve complimentary "meals" domestically (excluding AK and HI, where AQ, DL and HA serve meals). Everyone else BOB and/or packaged snacks.
The premium cabins on short-haul flights isn't much better. On more and more flights, a drink and a wider seat is all you get.
Outside of a few select markets, premium cabins command a revenue premium. In general, the carrier with the best schedule, not the best F class, will command the premium yields.
Honestly, I can live with the cutbacks to Y. What I can't understand is continuing to cut back the premium product. AA, CO and UA have more legroom in the F cabin than AS, and they offer meal service on flights of 2-3 hours in F, and while it may not be haute cusine, it's definitely superior to what AS is now offering with these new cutbacks. Sure, catering is an expense, but there are a lot of fixed costs involved with catering. It always makes me laugh when I see AS hand me a tray with a cloth napkin, silverware, real plate, and then just a tiny muffin and few pieces of fruit on it. I'd rather they saved the money on the fancy set up and just served something actually filling! Also, if the plane has big galleys and ovens (which AS does compared to LCCs), that is adding weight and taking away space they could use to offer another row of seats.
The solution is to expand hot meals to more routes in coach. AS really needs to take a look at what Midwest Airlines is doing with BOB. They make good use of the galley space while still generating some additional revenue. What I'd like to see AS do is expand BOB to shorter routes like SEA-PHX and SEA-LAX. Then, at least, they could offer for free in F what they are charging money for in Y. Not unreasonable, I don't think? True, AS gives away free elite upgrades 48-72 hours out and the carriers I mentioned do not, but AS is also trying to encourage a revenue premium through the instantly upgradeable fares and F fares. I can't even imagine purchasing an F fare on AS, it would be such a waste of money. Evidently AS is selling some F fares on transcons and the like, but I think if they continue to cutback the product, there is going to be some point where that revenue premium passengers are willing to pay will diminish or disappear. So, that certainly stands to hurt AS yields.
sxf24 --
I can validate that. When I worked at AA, we did annual studies on this subject (internally and externally done). In a list of price and service offerings, price would always be #1 and food service would always be in the bottom 25% of the list.
That being said, this may be an example of a market research paradox: what people SAY they want and what they actually want may be two different things. We talk alot about food on this board. However, when forced to choose amongst a variety of price/service offerings, we choose price and comfort over food.
I understand that price is king. Maybe I'm in the minority but, assuming the tickets prices are relatively close to one another as they usually are, I don't make my flying choices on price alone. Just the same, I understand that many do.
...To keep costs in check, some modifications were made to First Class service on select West Coast routes where Alaska offers food service, but the competition does not. In general, flights that previously served a hot sandwich with side salad have switched to a fruit and cheese plate for lunch and half of a hot sandwich, plus a side salad, for dinner. They are also exploring some other roll options for the sandwich....
Thanks very much for the info -- but :td::td::td: to AS for such a chintzy move. I thought that throwing a sandwich literally on top of a plate of salad was "the least they could do" -- but they've gone and proven me wrong.
Folks, we need to make sure AS hears our displeasure on things like this. I intend on calling (again, sigh) and on contacting our corporate travel management to ask them to complain to their contacts as well. :mad:
Has PDX-SAN not had meal service, or is this recent? I normally fly SEA-SAN and get a meal, but I noticed looking at PDX-SAN that there is none.
Mind you, I eat before I fly even from SEA, so I'm not upset. Just wondering if 150 miles makes that much of a difference...
We thought it was pretty silly that the FA's didn't know if the salmon was Alaskan when the gentleman behind us asked - it looked farmed and Atlantic to me.
Huh??? Do you honestly think that the FA would know if it's Alaskan salmon or not??? It came out of a catering kitchen in EWR -- not from the FA's freezer. That being said, I LOVE the FA's who just make things up. It would placate passengers such as yourself.
Thanks for the update in general!
But for SEA-LAX, I believe that United Airlines still serves a decent meal (choice of a large salad with meat or seafood toppings or a full-sized hot sandwich) with side fruit bowl and cookie...
After flying lots of Alaska Airlines flight this year, I am reconsidering flying just to the spot on AS next year (maybe just focusing on transcon)... I still like the F/As, but the onboard service is just unacceptable... I feel extremely frustrated because I actually have spent more money on Alaska Airlines to secure upgrades and even buying F on some flights and yet the onboard service becomes less and less. So from now on, I will be careful on which airline I fly on... I will no longer just automatically book Alaska. Since AS does not value my business, I will just explore options... (I really hope Jetblue or Expressjet or Virgin America can eventually start some SEA - Bay Area/LA Basin flights soon, and will happily fly them for better inflight services.) God forbid... if Southwest is cheap enough, I may fly just fly it... At least they run on time...
Yes Mileage Plan is great (in some ways) and most agents are good (at least no India)... and the fee waiver program of MVPG is excellent... but the on board service is just dismal to a level that is unacceptable... I am not the typical traveler... and I care about food and services... I will pay more to get a better seat... So cut back on AS flights will happen again in 2008.
Anyway, thanks for the updates!
Carfield
It's unfortunate that they have been cutting something they were very much known for. Especially if they are charging a slight premium for the service. I'm beginning to wonder what they are going to cut next.
waywired
AS F is becoming "AS Just a bigger seat". I'll grant you that. But the moves they are making seems to be pushing less people to buy up so there are more seats given out as UG at cheaper fares. First, they move the automatic upgade fare for MVP to just under a full F fare. It makes more sense for an MVP to buy F & get the class of service bonus. At the same time, they move the MVPG upgradable fare to where is costs twice as much in many cases as the next lower fare that is not upgradable. Again, buy up or wait list for the UG.
Now, they move the miles required to 15K EACH WAY so few will be spending miles to UG, except for the transcons. The reasoning as given by AS for this latest move is to make more UG seats available for the Golds.
Bottom line, AS is pricing the F product to where many more (that did buy in) will not pay for it, especially with the minimal service, so more UG seats will become available. Someone please explain the reasoning behind this. I can't figure it out. I like the UG when I get them, but the logic escapes me.:td::td::td::td:
Huh??? Do you honestly think that the FA would know if it's Alaskan salmon or not??? It came out of a catering kitchen in EWR -- not from the FA's freezer. That being said, I LOVE the FA's who just make things up. It would placate passengers such as yourself.
Pardon me? I didn't ask to be placated - I didn't even ask the question about the salmon (ordered the beef w/o hesitation - never had edible airline fish.)
Hearing the guy behind me ask and the FA not know just reminded me that serving salmon to a cabin full of Northwesterners was a dubious proposition.
I do hope you're just being facetious about loving "FA's who just make things up."
The right answer when you don't know something is "I don't know." An even better answer, though not always appropriate, is "I don't know, but I'll find out for you." Making things up to placate people is a hallmark of lousy customer service. (It's also dishonest, if you care.)
You need to voice your opinion to Bill Ayer and Gregg Saretsky.
Customer care will just give you the form letter with a simple explanation.
I agree. AS customers need to tell management they don't like the "no frills" direction the carrier is headed toward, and give management the message that the in flight experience (particularly meal service) matters.
Over the past four years, there has just been one cutback after another to inflight service (perhaps coincidentally, these cutbacks started almost exactly at the time John Kelly retired). They stage the cutbacks every 6-12 months, so that no one will scream too loudly, and so far they seem to be getting tacit acceptance. On SEA-LAX, full tray meals in Y went to hot sandwiches, and then to nothing. Routes that had complimentary snack service in Y only a year ago (transcons, sea-ord, sea-anc), now have buy on board. And, the F cutbacks come as AS continues to increase the cost of upgrading (through raising the threshold for instantly upgradeable fares and mileage upgrades). It seems to me management wants to turn AS into something akin to AirTran or Spirit or ATA, with a no-frills economy class, and then a business class that offers bigger seats and free drinks. However, fundamentally, AS is not a low cost carrier and their main bases (SEA, LAX, ANC) are all high cost environments. AS needs to provide a product which ensures at least some passengers will pay a revenue premium over the competition. Sure, they have a monopoly in some markets, and they have commanding marketshare in many others, but they can't count on that lasting indefinitely, especially on routes out of the Bay Area with Virgin America starting up.
Have you looked at other carriers coach products lately? Only CO and SY serve complimentary "meals" domestically (excluding AK and HI, where AQ, DL and HA serve meals). Everyone else BOB and/or packaged snacks.
The premium cabins on short-haul flights isn't much better. On more and more flights, a drink and a wider seat is all you get.
Outside of a few select markets, premium cabins command a revenue premium. In general, the carrier with the best schedule, not the best F class, will command the premium yields.
I would pay $15 for a (good) meal onboard if I were hungry, particularly if I could put it on a credit card and expense it. Buying food on the way to the airport in the middle of a business trip is often not an option for many people.
I loved the variety that was offered on Song while it lasted. I remember one SFO-JFK trip where I must have spent $40 on food and couple of cocktails.
rjque --
I actually AGREE with you. I'm sorry that I never got to fly SONG. At this point in my life, I'm making good money and am willing to spend part of it on in-flight meals and drinks (if they were offered).
I recently found no decent food to be had at the Phoenix airport early in the morning. I wish US Airways offered a decent $7 food option for breakfast that I could put on my corporate card. Alas, they do not.
Anyway, I already emailed the Customer Care department, which also seems to run much slower than normal now.
Carfield :o
They are busy shopping for deals on leis, and are obviously using the F meals to pay for them :mad:
I would pay $15 for a (good) meal onboard if I were hungry, particularly if I could put it on a credit card and expense it. Buying food on the way to the airport in the middle of a business trip is often not an option for many people......
That is a great idea; better still would be to allow pre-order from a reasonable selection. I'd pay $15 for a decent breakfast or lunch and $25 for dinner - provided, as you say that you could pay with a CC, and get a receipt for expenses.
I'm not aware of any public data that would support the assertion. However, it is absolutely correct - price outweighs brand loyalty or product offerings.
Bottom line: in markets where AS has direct competition, it must be price competitive.
sxf24 --
I can validate that. When I worked at AA, we did annual studies on this subject (internally and externally done). In a list of price and service offerings, price would always be #1 and food service would always be in the bottom 25% of the list.
That being said, this may be an example of a market research paradox: what people SAY they want and what they actually want may be two different things. We talk alot about food on this board. However, when forced to choose amongst a variety of price/service offerings, we choose price and comfort over food.
I have been considering flying AS in F from LAX to YVR on AS 683 at 3:32-6:31PM, and the meal is designated as "none". I am to presume this means cheese and crackers, as we fly into what would otherwise be a dinner window?
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Also, I could be returning on AS 636 from 10:05 AM to 1:07 PM, which seems to be designated as a "snack" flight. What should I expect on that flight? What lounge does AS use in LAX?
From the posts above, it sounds like the preferable option is AA via DFW, where the same service would be a full "dinner" and a full "breakfast" in F.
I take it there are no premium security lines in YVR. What should I expect for the security queue at 9AM in YVR?
AS used to have the best domestic first class service, so this is disappointing.
Our no meal in F was cheese, grapes and crackers. Marginal
Really, the "problem" is that on most flights (except transcons) there are hardly any paid F pax. On most routes, F on AS is simply a perk for elites (I'm 100% on UGs so far this year).
Personally, I am very happy to take the F seat, free drinks and superb service I get in F on AS in reward for my loyalty, and don't really feel that I can demand comprehensive meal service. Frankly, I'd rather be able to expect to get UGs when booking the day before, than see a little more in the way of frills.
Compared with my recent experiences in domestic AA F, where I got more of a meal, but much less service, and had to spend UG points, I'm very happy with AS.
Of course more complete meals would be nice, but they would not change my likelihood of flying AS one bit, and I think the same is likely true of most AS MVP/MVPGs. AS is a business, so it seems to me that what they are doing makes sense.
All thats said, I do think that AS would do well to improve some aspects of F on >3 hour flights. I expect that my views expressed above are faitly common with those of us who commute up and down the coast, but maybe less so to east coast and SEA-AK pax (and now HI).
I flew the 11:55am SEA-SNA flight on June 5th and we got the cheese and cracker plate. When I looked up my flight details online, it said "None" in the meal description section. Usually, it says "Snack*" - meaning there is a light meal in First.
I thought the cheeses, crackers, and grapes were pretty good. Much better than that onion dip and crusty bread they use to give us many moons ago.
I usually eat a bagel or something else before these lunch flights, as it is a crap shoot knowing what you will get.
Despite being an MVP Gold I have quit flying Alaska unless there's no other alternative. It's been lousy from beginning to end; starts with lousy service at check-in, followed by terrible service in-flight, finishing up with inept baggage handlers that take some 30-40 minutes to get you your luggage..:mad:
I seem to recall a few years back that there were some comments made by AS staff, that meal service was low on the totem poll of amenities most prioritized by the mysterious and elusive MVPG panel.
I've taken into account limited to non-existant meal service not just on AS but on all airlines and started to plan accordingly. (I always pack a snack now when I travel.)
I was a MVPG last year but decided to only fly AS when necessary. The flight delays drove me away. Today I have a flight up to SEA and went out to the airport to pay for my upgrade. Wondering if my flight would have any meal I checked online. Says meal- none.
I have a few flights booked on AS coming up. Nothing gets me anymore. I just remember a decade ago how good they were. Now they are an also ran airline. I put my flight credit onto my CO account.
There are some improvements planned for the First Class service on transcon flights starting this September.
Anything specific, like sundaes perhaps?
Anything specific, like sundaes perhaps?
We do sundaes now. I think that they are exploring offering more than 2 choices and possibly hot towels and menus. Beyond that, I'm not sure what else they are looking at.
Just a couple threads before this someone was commenting on the "LCC's". For reference, the only large airlines that are not "LCC's" are American and Continental. United, US Airways, Delta and Northwest (all big competitors) are all (thanks to the bankruptcy courts) now "LCC's". LCC's are low cost competitors and they all have lower costs than we do. Gone are the days when "LCC's" meant Southwest, Air Tran, Jet Blue and the likes.
...
You answered your own question in the next sentance. Yes they will. And in statistically significant numbers, it seems.
I wouldn't have guessed that. Can you point me to the data? Thanks!
I think one reason AA is starting to ramp up the FC product is because UA has been ramping up its FC product.
Quite the contrary, UA has been ramping down its F product while the other airlines have been ramping up.
Many have, and it didn't go over well, for the most part. UA did it for a bit when they were first testing the concept and I believe US does it as a matter of course.
Midwest offers several BOB choices, ranging in price from $5 to $10. The $5 option is more like what AS serves and the $10 is more of a complete meal. As far as I know, Midwest's program has been quite successful. MKE is similar to SEA in the respect that it is a fairly high yield market. Also, the longest flights Midwest offers are midcons (eg MKE-LAX) and they offer BOB on plenty 1.5 or 2 hour flights, so they obviously think there is demand for food on shorter flights. Midwest found a good way to maintain its premium service reputation (which AS had, but seems to be letting erode), while bringing its costs down.
One thing I found interesting, when I looked at AS financials, their catering expense in nominal terms was virtually identical in Q2 07 to Q2 06 (down less than 2%). I find that interesting considering that virtually all complimentary Y snacks/meals (except within the state of Alaska and possibly MEX/GDL) have been eliminated in the mean time. You might figure, all else being equal, there might be a 5% increase due to capacity growth and then another 3% for inflation, but still, it's not much of a decrease in real terms.
I know that these are anecdotal, but we are generally paying seriously LOWER fares these days.
Why F fares are lower, these F declining services are a joke, and F PAX are profitable. But the airlines compete and service is a factor, so those airlines that act as if service is a non-factor in F, will lose revenue from PAX that switch to better carriers. AS used to "get that". They used to be a preferred carrier with premium service. Now,m they have lost any edge, and the loss of revenues will be material. FFs and F PAX are a picky and savvy group, and the loss of revenues will be felt.
The beancounters are very good at measuring cost savings from F reductions. They are notoriously bad at estimated lost revenue from F defections. One lost passenger = probably 80 cutbacks at $10 in savings and $800 in revenue. Maybe the numbers are a little higher or a little lower, but the lost revenues outweigh the cost savings.
AA has learned this thru trial and error and is beefing back up its premium class service.
I also wish that my chosen career wasn't turned into a minimum wage job. Some things aren't likely to change. I know that sounds bitter, it's not meant to, I'm just trying to say that yes, even the employees wish we could go back to the old days - for more reasons than you know.
Actually the good old days of Gold Coast service were great. What wasn't so great for us PAX was the prices paid for a ticket. Adjusted for inflation the cost of airfare has come down quite a bit. I believe a study of airfares in the late 70's to early 80's, indicates that fares are about 40% lower now. But of course back in the good old days we didn't have the SWA's or the Jet Blues or other low cost carriers that have contributed to the degradation of the F product not just for AS but all the legacy carriers.
Why F fares are lower, these F declining services are a joke, and F PAX are profitable. But the airlines compete and service is a factor, so those airlines that act as if service is a non-factor in F, will lose revenue from PAX that switch to better carriers. AS used to "get that". They used to be a preferred carrier with premium service. Now,m they have lost any edge, and the loss of revenues will be material. FFs and F PAX are a picky and savvy group, and the loss of revenues will be felt.
The beancounters are very good at measuring cost savings from F reductions. They are notoriously bad at estimated lost revenue from F defections. One lost passenger = probably 80 cutbacks at $10 in savings and $800 in revenue. Maybe the numbers are a little higher or a little lower, but the lost revenues outweigh the cost savings.
AA has learned this thru trial and error and is beefing back up its premium class service.
You're right, FF pax are saavy travelers. They know how to get the most for the least. They are very saavy at finding the best value for their dollar. In terms of travel that generally means they want to find the least expensive fare on the most convenient flight that offers them the biggest bang for their buck. On those routes where Alaska has cut back who offers a better value? Alaskas offers competitive fares, more flights in most markets and most often the most convenient schedules. F travelers are still going to generally get more on Alaska flying the west coast then most any other airline. I don't think UA or US/HP are serving hot meals in F from SEA-PHX/LAS/LAX/SFO/DEN and they are the only other nonstop competition with an F product. Neither offer the schedules that Alaska does. In markets where we have quite a bit of competition (SEA-EWR/DCA/BOS/MCO/MIA) you should see an upgraded F product in Sept.
We do sundaes now. I think that they are exploring offering more than 2 choices and possibly hot towels and menus. Beyond that, I'm not sure what else they are looking at.
A pre-departure beverage service would be nice. It is a very low cost item.
...No second trip by FC attendent for drinks. No nut refill.
I had a similar experience recently in F going RNO-SEA. Well, there weren't any nuts but the beverage and pretzels service was comparatively late in the flight with no obvious explanation and if I'd wanted a refill I would have had to track someone down. If I weren't normally treated to more timely service in F on AS I would have wondered if they were trying to save money on soda and pretzels by making it difficult to get more than one serving.
It made me laugh out loud to imagine someone paying an H fare PLUS coughing up 15,000 miles to upgrade on a such a flight.
Actually the good old days of Gold Coast service were great. What wasn't so great for us PAX was the prices paid for a ticket. Adjusted for inflation the cost of airfare has come down quite a bit. I believe a study of airfares in the late 70's to early 80's, indicates that fares are about 40% lower now. But of course back in the good old days we didn't have the SWA's or the Jet Blues or other low cost carriers that have contributed to the degradation of the F product not just for AS but all the legacy carriers.
I went off to college in 1980 and paid for my own ticket from SEA-BOS rt (American Airlines coach service). The ticket cost $339 roundtrip total. In today's dollars, that would be between $830 and $906, depending on the inflation calculator. If I had to pay $800-$900 for that trip today, I just wouldn't go.
Just a few years ago (2000), my company routinely paid $1000-$1200 roundtrip for business trips out of San Antonio (to, say, Washington or New York). We would think that was exhorbitant these days.
My mother is upset that she might have to pay $600 to go from SEA-HNL at Christmas. She used to pay about $500 TWENTY-FIVE years ago!!! Oh, but 25 years ago, they fed you a "meal" (some lovely NW creation such as "Crepes Foo Young" -- not kidding they actually served that in Y on a HNL flight).
I know that these are anecdotal, but we are generally paying seriously LOWER fares these days.
Untitled Document::
beginning in June 2007:. Cooking and Preserving the Season - showcases seasonal classes were so popular that we are running them again in June and July.
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Thanks for the update. Disappointing, but then that pretty much describes the general state of the US domestics nowadays.
We do sundaes now. I think that they are exploring offering more than 2 choices and possibly hot towels and menus. Beyond that, I'm not sure what else they are looking at.
2 choices of ice cream, toppings or meals? I don't need a menu to decide between vanilla & chocolate or chocolate sauce or strawberries.:confused:
I'm curious if AS will ever offer ALL-F service ANC-SEA. No doubt that there are enough business persons going to/from Alaska who would pay for the service.
Such a service would be pretty much impossible unless you only had one flight a day to concentrate all the paid-F folks onto and many (if not most) of them want frequency and flexibility.
Sorry to hear that the deteriorating service on AS is escalating. The decline in service was quite noticeable all last year. I've been on NW or DL metal for the past few months and haven't been on AS since Jan., but have an AS trip coming up soon, and at least 2 more before fall.
I will say that DL has improved significantly this year since they sort of "hit bottom" a couple of years ago. (no where to go but up) Certainly not like the "old days," but now AS seems to be on that slippery slope to mediocrity, or worse. Until this past 2 years, I had commented to friends and neighbors about what a treat it was to get on an AS flight, compared to the alternatives, but that feeling is coming to an end.
I'll see how things go on my upcoming AS trip, and drop a memo to one of the "powers that be," as suggested previously.
I was a MVPG last year but decided to only fly AS when necessary. The flight delays drove me away. Today I have a flight up to SEA and went out to the airport to pay for my upgrade. Wondering if my flight would have any meal I checked online. Says meal- none.
I have a few flights booked on AS coming up. Nothing gets me anymore. I just remember a decade ago how good they were. Now they are an also ran airline. I put my flight credit onto my CO account.
You are coming to seattle and you didn't call?
Sniff.
I can't tell from this thread whether the cut backs affect transcons, as the routes mentioned are fairly short. I have one in 4 months that I plan to upgrade with miles with the expectation of a meal and not just cheese and crackers. Can anyone comment on transcon meal service and whether it is being scaled back as well?
I don't believe I've ever said that. I've been as embarassed as every other FA in the reduction of onboard amenities. That being said, fares for the F cabin are lower now than ever before in almost every market we serve. You can buy a full fare F ticket from MIA to ANC for about $800 one way. They aren't at Super Saver levels and likely never will be, but those that generally pay for F fares are saving a lot of money over years past.
Listening to the conversation here you would think that a meal was the only reason anyone pays for an F ticket. Aside from a meal in F class, you get the mileage bonus for full fare F, admission to the Board Room for full fare F, a bigger seat with more legroom (admittedly not as much as some other airlines), priority boarding and check in lines as well as a special line through security, comp cocktails, beer and wine and the attention of one Flight Attendant (some FA's are better at this than others) for 12-16 people vs. 2 or 3 FA's for 112-156 people. You also have the flexibility of changing or refunding your ticket at any time.
For our most valued customers we offer the option to pay a slightly higher fare so that they can upgrade their ticket at the time of purchase. If having an F seat is important to them they can do that. For those that are not inclined to pay more they can hedge their bets and see if they can be upgraded 48 hours prior to their flight (I believe it's 48 hours). In any case, nobody is holding a gun to anyones head to make them pay the higher fares to upgrade. Those that do so obviously feel that the money is worth having a larger seat, free drinks and priority boarding.
I am embarrased by the reduction in amenities on board because I've been in this business for over 20 years now and remember the "good old days". BUT, I have watched my career being driven into the dirt by airlines (not Alaska as much as the others) trying to find a way to lower fares to maintain customer loyalty so forgive me if I'm not completely broken up by the fact that flying isn't what it used to be. My job isn't what it used to be either. I continue to do it because I enjoy the people I work with and the fascinating customers I encounter on board. People fly because the fares are low (in some cases lower than it costs to drive). We all have to sacrifice a little for what we want. In the customers case lower fares, in my case a job with great flexibility that allows me to do what I do best - take care of people. I hope that you don't interpret that as me saying you don't deserve anything but a seat when paying for an airline ticket. People deserve to be treated with compassion and kindness by the employees of the airline at which they purchased the ticket. Do I believe they are owed a meal? probably not.
Despite lots of us complaining (and, in my view, with some justification) about questions of first class service, I think one almost universally appreciated aspect is the high-quality service we've grown accustomed to by AS FAs. I know that you folks have a challenging job and you're rarely given the credit you're due, but I, for one, want to remind FAs like AS Flyer that even though us passengers might gripe about shrinking meal service or on-time records or seat pitch or anything else, we VERY much appreciate the work that you do. Let's be plain- people like you are reasons I continue to choose Alaska Airlines even with concerns about other elements of the airline. Keep it up!! :-:
If you are talking about paying for a meal in F on top of the fare, it is not a great idea. Ever. Respectable food should come with the F fare, whatever it may be.
I could see an option of paying for premium offerings in F.
I agree. AS customers need to tell management they don't like the "no frills" direction the carrier is headed toward, and give management the message that the in flight experience (particularly meal service) matters.
Over the past four years, there has just been one cutback after another to inflight service (perhaps coincidentally, these cutbacks started almost exactly at the time John Kelly retired). They stage the cutbacks every 6-12 months, so that no one will scream too loudly, and so far they seem to be getting tacit acceptance. On SEA-LAX, full tray meals in Y went to hot sandwiches, and then to nothing. Routes that had complimentary snack service in Y only a year ago (transcons, sea-ord, sea-anc), now have buy on board. And, the F cutbacks come as AS continues to increase the cost of upgrading (through raising the threshold for instantly upgradeable fares and mileage upgrades). It seems to me management wants to turn AS into something akin to AirTran or Spirit or ATA, with a no-frills economy class, and then a business class that offers bigger seats and free drinks. However, fundamentally, AS is not a low cost carrier and their main bases (SEA, LAX, ANC) are all high cost environments. AS needs to provide a product which ensures at least some passengers will pay a revenue premium over the competition. Sure, they have a monopoly in some markets, and they have commanding marketshare in many others, but they can't count on that lasting indefinitely, especially on routes out of the Bay Area with Virgin America starting up.
I totally agree! As you are an MVP, now make your voice heard to those that should care at AS!
I know that AS Flyer always says we are only buying a ticket and we should not expect to be fed on the plane even in F but soon there will be no amenities left in F.
I don't believe I've ever said that. I've been as embarassed as every other FA in the reduction of onboard amenities. That being said, fares for the F cabin are lower now than ever before in almost every market we serve. You can buy a full fare F ticket from MIA to ANC for about $800 one way. They aren't at Super Saver levels and likely never will be, but those that generally pay for F fares are saving a lot of money over years past.
Listening to the conversation here you would think that a meal was the only reason anyone pays for an F ticket. Aside from a meal in F class, you get the mileage bonus for full fare F, admission to the Board Room for full fare F, a bigger seat with more legroom (admittedly not as much as some other airlines), priority boarding and check in lines as well as a special line through security, comp cocktails, beer and wine and the attention of one Flight Attendant (some FA's are better at this than others) for 12-16 people vs. 2 or 3 FA's for 112-156 people. You also have the flexibility of changing or refunding your ticket at any time.
For our most valued customers we offer the option to pay a slightly higher fare so that they can upgrade their ticket at the time of purchase. If having an F seat is important to them they can do that. For those that are not inclined to pay more they can hedge their bets and see if they can be upgraded 48 hours prior to their flight (I believe it's 48 hours). In any case, nobody is holding a gun to anyones head to make them pay the higher fares to upgrade. Those that do so obviously feel that the money is worth having a larger seat, free drinks and priority boarding.
I am embarrased by the reduction in amenities on board because I've been in this business for over 20 years now and remember the "good old days". BUT, I have watched my career being driven into the dirt by airlines (not Alaska as much as the others) trying to find a way to lower fares to maintain customer loyalty so forgive me if I'm not completely broken up by the fact that flying isn't what it used to be. My job isn't what it used to be either. I continue to do it because I enjoy the people I work with and the fascinating customers I encounter on board. People fly because the fares are low (in some cases lower than it costs to drive). We all have to sacrifice a little for what we want. In the customers case lower fares, in my case a job with great flexibility that allows me to do what I do best - take care of people. I hope that you don't interpret that as me saying you don't deserve anything but a seat when paying for an airline ticket. People deserve to be treated with compassion and kindness by the employees of the airline at which they purchased the ticket. Do I believe they are owed a meal? probably not.
2 choices of mealsWill this be just for transcons, as indicated up thread, or will there be improvements on shorter (ie. north-south) routes? Also, is September the right time frame? I have several trips booked, ANC-SEA, ANC-SEA-SAN, ANC-SEA-DEN (NOTICE A PATTERN HERE?;) )starting in mid-Sept. It would be nice to see an upgrade of the quality, especially on the ANC-SEA route.
Disappointing indeed. More and more it seems as if AS is determing service levels by matching the competition. AS doesn't have the cost structure of an LCC and in a similar service/similar service binary competitive mode, AS is not going to be as profitable as, say, SW. There are, to be sure, differences between the two airlines, but I grimace when I hear that competitive standards determine AS standards.
The beancounters are very good at measuring cost savings from F reductions. They are notoriously bad at estimated lost revenue from F defections. One lost passenger = probably 80 cutbacks at $10 in savings and $800 in revenue. Maybe the numbers are a little higher or a little lower, but the lost revenues outweigh the cost savings.
AA has learned this thru trial and error and is beefing back up its premium class service.
I think one reason AA is starting to ramp up the FC product is because UA has been ramping up its FC product. Also AA has those international routes and just about every int'l carrier eats AA's J and F product for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. AS probably feels, at least on the WC that it really doesn't need to do too much to the front cabin as they don't have much competition for FC pax other than UA fm SEA-LAX. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the count is at the end of the year or maybe end of 1st qtr next year to see if the current AS pricing model was a success or failure or a push.
There's Do you expect Dom Perignon or Opus One on domestic first class? Do you expect foie gras and lobster tails? Do you expect 18-21 year old whiskey versus Chivas 12 or Dewars? Or, XO cognac? What even ever happened to a nice sirloin or decent sized and decently cooked filet?What? No one is asking for Dom or Lobster, but how about at least a hot sandwich and salad served on the same plate during dinner time 4:00 PM to 6:59 PM on flights over two hours and how about a starter salad, bread and choice of 2 entrees on cross country trips? That all may be in jeopardy after we recently saw the lunch sandwich completely disappear. I really just wish someone like the NY Times or Wall Street Journal will expose the airlines for quietly removing meals and amenities from F and (by remaining hush, hush) deceptively allowing people to think they are getting more than they actually are when pay for F. When I tell business travelers that certain F flights on AS do not have meals they actually become angry with me and say things like "they better have, for what I paid for F!" OK, good luck with that. But maybe AS can snooker just enough people to pay for F (and serve them those warm overly salty nuts) to get them through this whole fuel crisis. I know that AS Flyer always says we are only buying a ticket and we should not expect to be fed on the plane even in F but soon there will be no amenities left in F. I certainly could care less about a bigger seat. I know I am one that hates the overly stuffed and awkwardly squarish seats on the 700. I prefer the form fitting seats with adjustable headrests like on the 800’s.
You need to voice your opinion to Bill Ayer and Gregg Saretsky.
Customer care will just give you the form letter with a simple explanation.
I agree. AS customers need to tell management they don't like the "no frills" direction the carrier is headed toward, and give management the message that the in flight experience (particularly meal service) matters.
Over the past four years, there has just been one cutback after another to inflight service (perhaps coincidentally, these cutbacks started almost exactly at the time John Kelly retired). They stage the cutbacks every 6-12 months, so that no one will scream too loudly, and so far they seem to be getting tacit acceptance. On SEA-LAX, full tray meals in Y went to hot sandwiches, and then to nothing. Routes that had complimentary snack service in Y only a year ago (transcons, sea-ord, sea-anc), now have buy on board. And, the F cutbacks come as AS continues to increase the cost of upgrading (through raising the threshold for instantly upgradeable fares and mileage upgrades). It seems to me management wants to turn AS into something akin to AirTran or Spirit or ATA, with a no-frills economy class, and then a business class that offers bigger seats and free drinks. However, fundamentally, AS is not a low cost carrier and their main bases (SEA, LAX, ANC) are all high cost environments. AS needs to provide a product which ensures at least some passengers will pay a revenue premium over the competition. Sure, they have a monopoly in some markets, and they have commanding marketshare in many others, but they can't count on that lasting indefinitely, especially on routes out of the Bay Area with Virgin America starting up.
I can't even imagine purchasing an F fare on AS, it would be such a waste of money.
It depends. I buy F on AS because it saves me a few hours in the security line and lets me wait for my flight in the Board Room instead of the terminal. I view that as money well spent.
I agree that offering a superior BOB in Y and providing it free in F would be a great solution. I'm not sure why more airlines haven't tried it.
Many have, and it didn't go over well, for the most part. UA did it for a bit when they were first testing the concept and I believe US does it as a matter of course.
Absolutely! Why not just increase the ticket price by the cost of the meal?
You answered your own question in the next sentance.
Will the more FFs on AS really defect to SW or UA when flying up and down the Left Coast because the ticket is nominally more expensive?
Yes they will. And in statistically significant numbers, it seems.
A little bump on this thread with some updated info. I check with someone I know in the department that handles meal service and they gave me some highlights that I can share with you.
There are some improvements planned for the First Class service on transcon flights starting this September. To keep costs in check, some modifications were made to First Class service on select West Coast routes where Alaska offers food service, but the competition does not. In general, flights that previously served a hot sandwich with side salad have switched to a fruit and cheese plate for lunch and half of a hot sandwich, plus a side salad, for dinner. They are also exploring some other roll options for the sandwich.
Also, in the future, they advised they will work closely with the other departments that handle member communications so there is improved communication when changes are being made and more information as to why the changes are taking place.
I hope this information is helpful in explaining the recent changes some of you have experienced.
I thought the transcon F meals ex EWR were passable this weekend. I liked the salad and the braised beef entree - it was called "short ribs" but I didn't see any ribs. Still, a boneless braised cut is a good compromise for beef on a plane, since HACCP guidelines rule out anything rare.
My wife's salmon, otoh, was not so good. It had a thick, sticky, too-sweet glaze and didn't smell very good either (couldn't tell if it was the sauce or the fish.) We thought it was pretty silly that the FA's didn't know if the salmon was Alaskan when the gentleman behind us asked - it looked farmed and Atlantic to me.
It'd be nice if AS could serve decent salmon since surely they're shipping enough of it in the holds. I guess they're just dependent on the local catering in east coast outstations. In any event, serving bad salmon to an F cabin full of Northwesterners is a bad move.
Airline meals are ridiculously expensive. To get a reasonably decent meal, they would have to charge $10-$15. Are people willing to pay $10?? Maybe on a transcon.
I've always advocated meals during times when there are substantial numbers of business travelers (e.g. Mon-Fri SEA-SFO but not on weekends). I would love to have some kind of BOB on PHX-SEA because Terminal 2 "food" choices are TERRIBLE in PHX.
Despite lots of us complaining (and, in my view, with some justification) about questions of first class service, I think one almost universally appreciated aspect is the high-quality service we've grown accustomed to by AS FAs. I know that you folks have a challenging job and you're rarely given the credit you're due, but I, for one, want to remind FAs like AS Flyer that even though us passengers might gripe about shrinking meal service or on-time records or seat pitch or anything else, we VERY much appreciate the work that you do. Let's be plain- people like you are reasons I continue to choose Alaska Airlines even with concerns about other elements of the airline. Keep it up!! :-:
Hear hear!
Pardon me? I didn't ask to be placated - I didn't even ask the question about the salmon (ordered the beef w/o hesitation - never had edible airline fish.)
Hearing the guy behind me ask and the FA not know just reminded me that serving salmon to a cabin full of Northwesterners was a dubious proposition.
I do hope you're just being facetious about loving "FA's who just make things up."
The right answer when you don't know something is "I don't know." An even better answer, though not always appropriate, is "I don't know, but I'll find out for you." Making things up to placate people is a hallmark of lousy customer service. (It's also dishonest, if you care.)
I worked in the airline industry for a number of years. When I started, I felt exactly like you did. Tell the truth...explain as much as possible...say "I don't know.". After being verbally abused any number of times, many employees just start creatively making it up or else become grumpy old airline employees.;)
What would you have thought about the following scenario: If the FA told the other passenger, "Let me go look it up on my paperwork." Then, the FA heads back to the galley and stares intently at the paperwork for a few seconds. Finally, the FA goes back to the passenger and says "Sir, it's Alaskan Salmon!". Would you believe the FA? Most likely, if everything was done in a polite manner!
Did the FA just make up the answer? Most likely, yes!
Trust me, it happens all the time when people ask unreasonable or unanswerable questions.
Honestly, having lived on both coasts, I would rather have Alaskan salmon out of SEA and Atlantic salmon out of EWR because it would be FRESHER. With fish, the key is freshness.
You are coming to seattle and you didn't call?
Sniff.
yeah, what she said.
Honestly, I can live with the cutbacks to Y. What I can't understand is continuing to cut back the premium product...
Absolutely! Why not just increase the ticket price by the cost of the meal? Will the more FFs on AS really defect to SW or UA when flying up and down the Left Coast because the ticket is nominally more expensive (even with production and delivery labor included, the bagel chip and dip plate can't be expensive). Maybe they've run the numbers, completed the market research, and found that FFs really are that price sensitive. That seems counterintuitive, but...
I just bought my PDX-SAN-PDX tickets. Unrestricted First Class for $250 each way.
That was only $10 more then the full Economy fare and only $100 more then the cheapest, non-refundable fare (which hasn't gone up or down in months). I'm flying out of PDX because I am traveling with a group of friends so I figured it's easier to stay together and I was happy to see PDX is $100 cheaper each way then SEA.
In 1991 I paid $200 for a one-way F fare SEA-SAN on AS. So in sixteen years, the price has essentially not changed. Yes, in 1991 I got a really inedible pizza and now I just get nuts, but other then that, nothing has changed. Heck, I'm probably in the same 737-400 this year as I was in 1991. :p
While the on-board product may not be all that great, AS is winning my business because they offer me better value. UA wants $250 for a restricted F ticket and sometimes I have to fight the Gate Agents about it being a "real" First Class fare and not an "Economy fare wi
I could see an option of paying for premium offerings in F.
Then it should be called "big seat" class, because it is nothing more than BOB in a big seat. F is "premium offerings."
I wouldn't have guessed that. Can you point me to the data? Thanks!
I'm not aware of any public data that would support the assertion. However, it is absolutely correct - price outweighs brand loyalty or product offerings.
Bottom line: in markets where AS has direct competition, it must be price competitive.
Airline meals are ridiculously expensive. To get a reasonably decent meal, they would have to charge $10-$15. Are people willing to pay $10?? Maybe on a transcon.
I've always advocated meals during times when there are substantial numbers of business travelers (e.g. Mon-Fri SEA-SFO but not on weekends). I would love to have some kind of BOB on PHX-SEA because Terminal 2 "food" choices are TERRIBLE in PHX.
I would pay $15 for a (good) meal onboard if I were hungry, particularly if I could put it on a credit card and expense it. Buying food on the way to the airport in the middle of a business trip is often not an option for many people.
I loved the variety that was offered on Song while it lasted. I remember one SFO-JFK trip where I must have spent $40 on food and couple of cocktails.
That is a great idea; better still would be to allow pre-order from a reasonable selection. I'd pay $15 for a decent breakfast or lunch and $25 for dinner - provided, as you say that you could pay with a CC, and get a receipt for expenses.
If you are talking about paying for a meal in F on top of the fare, it is not a great idea. Ever. Respectable food should come with the F fare, whatever it may be.
The solution is to expand hot meals to more routes in coach. AS really needs to take a look at what Midwest Airlines is doing with BOB. They make good use of the galley space while still generating some additional revenue. What I'd like to see AS do is expand BOB to shorter routes like SEA-PHX and SEA-LAX. Then, at least, they could offer for free in F what they are charging money for in Y. Not unreasonable, I don't think? True, AS gives away free elite upgrades 48-72 hours out and the carriers I mentioned do not, but AS is also trying to encourage a revenue premium through the instantly upgradeable fares and F fares. I can't even imagine purchasing an F fare on AS, it would be such a waste of money. Evidently AS is selling some F fares on transcons and the like, but I think if they continue to cutback the product, there is going to be some point where that revenue premium passengers are willing to pay will diminish or disappear. So, that certainly stands to hurt AS yields.
I agree that offering a superior BOB in Y and providing it free in F would be a great solution. I'm not sure why more airlines haven't tried it.
 I Am a Sinner – What About You?
 Global Sourcing and Supplier Online by Dylan
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Cutbacks on F meals again in AS June 07