Christmas and HD Cams - HDR-UX10 High Definition DVD Handycam Camcorder - Affordable - nnkl.com

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Christmas and HD Cams

Christmas and HD Cams
Published by: anonym 2009-01-07

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Well, seems it's been a couple of years at least since the Hd camcorders have been out and prices have dropped considerably and hopefully features have improved. How many of you would like to make it a Merry Holiday and get yourself a new HD camcorder? I have to admit my mind is wandering that direction.

What is the latest on this topic though? I've looked around - did a few searches here and found very little on people discussing Hd camcorders or the technology required to edit and display the images within the forum. Also not much on the Pros and Cons. I do remember issues related to low light performance and problems with sequences containing lightning.

Surely it is by now a good time to start a thread on the opinions of the best models, whether the tech is good enough for chaser use yet, what the best editors are for HD, what equipment (computer, etc) is required, what burners, which formats are best (ex 1080i/1080p) along with personal experiences.

So how about it? Are you converting to HD, or have you already? What tidbits of knowledge have you found along the way that you would like to share and discuss with the rest of us?

Yeah the apparent $3,000+ for an entry level 3 ccd Hd cam is a bit daunting. I've spent enough on electronics in previous years and with the cost of everything else going up it gets tougher all the time to justify those prices particularly if there's a chance I won't make the effort to put out a dvd highlights video.

So you are probably right though Mike...3 ccd being the entry requirement. As mentioned, what about the Hv20? The other guy says he loves it. As I recall it won Camcorderinfo.com's 20007 contest. I wonder if it is decent in low light? Derek have you tested this on storms and clouds?

Y As mentioned, what about the Hv20? The other guy says he loves it. As I recall it won Camcorderinfo.com's 20007 contest. I wonder if it is decent in low light?

I can't speak for the picture quality, but I did handle it when it first came out as I was in the market for an HD camera. I went with the Sony, the HV20 is so cheapy feeling, just constructed of light cheap plastic, not that the Sony HC models are tanks, but IMO their construction is leaps and bounds above the HV20, and I can't imagine that the HV20 out performs the Sony in terms of picture quality all that much, at $1000 a piece or whatever they are now for a HD camcorder you can't expect all that much above beyond what the typical consumer needs the camera for. It's like anything else you get what you pay for, personally if I could do it over again if unable to save and splurge on the FX models I would strongly consider forgetting the Consumer HD's and going with a Sony VX model.

I have used www.bhphotovideo.com many times and they are excellent. They have the Sony HVRA1U HDV Camcorder for $2,249.95 right now.

Well I finally have an HD tv, and I finally watched some of the footage from my sony HC1 on it. I've trashed this camera in posts on here before, and it's not going to stop here.

I watched some of the ice footage I shot last week, and it looks pretty amazing on there. Any day light shot looks amazing. Then I watched some storm footage. What a piece of crap camera this is. Noise jumps out waaaaaaaaaaay before it is at all dark out. What is equally as bad is the patchy tendency of the colors on the storms. It's just abrupt all the time, with few shades in the gradients. You see patchy purple/blue or patchy green sort of changing places in the storm base.

I've come to the conclusion to stay the hell away from HD unless it is a 3 ccd version. And like I mentioned in the other threads on cameras, I'd be pretty cautious of Sony's latest lux ratings on these things. They all dropped with several 5 lux, or 3 lux versions. I believe that latest version of mine says 5 lux now....maybe it's the HC5 I forget. Well the online review of it on camcorder info.com made its low light abilities look WORSE than my HC1(which is rated 7 lux...their lowest). Mine isn't just bad, it's jokingly bad....and it starts so far before anything I'd really consider low light. But I do have some night video in a city that looks really good, with really no noise in the dark sky portions. I think that's just what it does with contrast between the brighter city lights and the darkness. As far as storms go, may as well put the thing back in the bag if it is an hour or so before sunset. Hell, the way it gives goofy colors(lacking many levels to define an area) to storms, may as well leave the thing in the bag all the time. What a waste of $1400. I hope to sell it to some non-chaser before the season, but only if I can figure out a way to get an FX1 or something with 3 ccds(not likely lol).

Mick, how difficult was the camera to put into Infinity. Is there an infinity button or does one just focus out with the manual setting?

Bill Hark

Bill,

Well you have to use manual focus because there is no infinity button on the unit. As far as the level of difficulty to get the unit to infinity focus, I think one will just have to get use to that little focus scroll button / control. Once one get use to it I don�t think it will be that hard. Not to say he / she will like though�

One other thing I did not like about the unit is the digital zoom. Naturally all digital zoom units get very pixilated when you zoom in VERY close. The HV20 has a 200x digital zoom and once you get to about 100x it get rather grainy so just a word of caution.

Mick

Those solid state camcorders (new) sound interesting. They record right to 16gb memory cards. That is fast memory - much faster than tape or hard drive. Seems that would make editing and encoding much quicker, and less cumbersome for HD.

For any Sony fans, 5 new HD camcorders were announced during the CES in Las Vegas:

http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/consumer/digital_imaging/camcorders/high_definition/release/32355.html

Are these camcorders the 1080i variant or the actual 1080p?

I am not a night chaser and I could care less about the low light issue BUT Youtube has many "test" shoots with the HV20 just type "HV20 Low light" into the search box.

Mick

Chasing camcorders and low light don't necessarily have to do with night chasing. Many storm environments shot in daylight around storms are very low light due to cloud cover.

That low light info (3 lux) about the HV20 for the price (around $660) is interesting. It is likely inexpensive enough to make motivate some to check it out. If they sell it at Frys Electronics I'd be tempted to buy one and test it. They have a very liberal return policy.

2.) The focus bar is so small it is very hard to control if you have large fingers. I do not and I even had a hard time with it. Also if you have the view finder tilted back it gets in the way of the focus button.

Mick, how difficult was the camera to put into Infinity. Is there an infinity button or does one just focus out with the manual setting?

Bill Hark

I'm seeing this Xha1 on this scan coming up at $999:
http://www.diduprice.com/stores.asp?productid=1191B001&sas=1&ssort=

Is that Best Price Cameras place legit?

Best hd camcorder of the year is listed as the Canon Hv20 http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/CamInfo-Selects-2007-33545.htm#Camoftheyear

However yesterday I was searching around (I think on camcorderinfo.com) and found an article about a new Sony prosumer type Hd camcorder to be released by December 2007 that was below $3000 - perhaps substantially below as I recall - maybe $1900. It was black and looked similar to a Vx2000. Anyway, now I can't find the article or the camcorder because I cleared my browser history and didn't bookmark it. Anybody know what I'm talking about. I think it is already released. We should likely take a good look at it if we can find it.

I don't use a true camcorder, but the camera I use takes really good quality photos and video. I use the Sony H-9... nice camera for only $400. Great first time out type. I'm dreading the day I have to drop over a grand on a good cam. :eek:

How stuttery is the HD20 in 24P mode? I remember my Vx2000 has a progressive mode and when you switch to it it's like you are in slow motion - very jerky. It is unusable IMO. Is the 24P mode that bad?

I've experimented a little with the 24p mode, and haven't had a problem with stutter. A more informed opinion than mine comes from the producer of Tornado Glory, who also owns an HV20 and discussed the camera with me in detail. He told me he was initially concerned that there would be problems with stutter and jerkiness, but that it turned out not to be a problem and that he now shoots exclusively in 24p when using the HV20.

I watched all the low light HD20 vid on Youtube but it was hard to tell as they were usually shooting pictures of light sources. Some of the low light shots looked a bit blocky or pixelated, but that may have just been due to low quality youtube video file sizes, etc.

If you do some test footage, try and make it realistic to chasing. Go out a dusk and shoot at clouds and see what you get. Try early on and then as it gets to total dark. If comparison footage of a good low light cam could be run at the same time that would be super good - such as with a Vx2000 or Vx2100. Then we could really tell the difference.

I've done exactly what you propose last summer by shooting footage near dusk of the sky/clouds/moon/etc. My experience was that as it becomes dark, there are increasing problems with grain in the footage, which may explain the "blockiness" or "pixellation" you observed in the youtube videos.

It would also be great to see what we get with lightning. On one of the Youtube videos they had a party in the dark with strobe lights going and the video seemed to handle it well.

I've found correctly exposing lightning using the HV20 to be very tricky, however I think this is probably just caused by my being a newbie when it comes to photography and videography. I haven't played around with it a lot, but I suspect that shooting with a narrower aperture and/or using a lens hood would solve most of my problems.

Regardless, you guys have lit a fire under my butt, I'm ready to get this thing out again and do some experimenting. :D

Ah!!!! Finally. This was driving me mad. I've spent a few hours trying to find this new professional Hd camcorder the HVR-HD1000U MSRP $1999
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-Drops-the-Bottom-on-Pro-HDV-Camcorders-with-the-HVR-HD1000U-33224.htm

What do the rest of you think? Is anyone familiar with this hd cam?

You don't want this camera for storm chasing. I have done extensive research on it, intending to buy one, and instead settled on the HX1 (looks like a VX)
It's basically the buts of an HC7 handicam repacked into a bigger case. It's a single chip (not 3ccd).

I had an EXCELLENT review I had found from an industry insider that actually got his hands on one. I can't seem to find the link now, but it had several dealbreakers for me on it for chasing. One was the lux rating and the the single chip.

At least wait til it's been out a bit and put to some real world use and gets some more hands on reviews.

Speaking of editing - what software do you recomend for an HV20 - or any other HD camcorder?

I've read in many places most are using Sony Vegas. Pinnacle Studio supports Hd, and likely their more professional software does as well. I'm not sure if Tsunami products support HD yet, but I'd suspect yes.

Both the XHA1 and the XLH1 perform beautifully in low light conditions! I've been very, very pleased with both of them. Yep, you're paying for that Canon name, but also the quality that comes with it as well.

Here is a quote from a user of the HV20.

3. Low Light perfomance: Now this is what I was most nervous about...my worries are over. The HV20 KILLS the HC1 in low light performance. It is SO MUCH BETTER that even if my HC1 wasn't dying, I would still upgrade! I have 3 kids and so indoor pictures has to be good. Again, my wife and friends saw a significant difference in low light performance. This was at a shutter speed of 1/60 and normal family room lighting.
4.24p recording: I read up on all the info

I to am in the market for a point and shoot camera, as my DVX100A is such a pain to use while dealing with all the other demands of chasing also. On top of that I would like to upgrade to HD as well. I am not a night chaser and I could care less about the low light issue BUT Youtube has many "test" shoots with the HV20 just type "HV20 Low light" into the search box.

Mick

I't looks like the HV20 seems to be the chaser's choice for an HD camera however I still have worries about rolling shutter with lightning footage. If anyone has footage of lightning (in particular a CG strike) captured from a HV20 I would be interested to see how the rolling shutter performs.

The HV30 (the HV20's replacement) has also just been announced by Canon as well as a plethora of other camcorders for 2008. Details of the HV30 here (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Move-Over-HV20-Here-Comes-the-Canon-HV30-34020.htm) with the other new camcorders here (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/)

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I guess the Canon HV20 does good in low light, if you shoot in 24p. (Which is a bonus, if you use it for other than storm chasing.)

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HV20-Camcorder-Review/Performance.htm

Switching over to the 24P mode, the strength of the Canon HV20 becomes clear. This camcorder is a killer in low light. The sensitivity (ability to produce 50 IRE) dropped all the way down to 3 lux, less the half the light required by the Sony HDR-HC7.

Yeah, other forums I've read on this thing say it is likely a repackage of the HDR-HC7 which has the same sensor - though supposedly it has a slightly better image - perhaps due to a larger lens?

I wish I could find that last review I was talking about. Actually the lens WASN'T larger, it just looked like it until you got a good close look.

There is some speculation that after this comes out, a much more "professional" version of this camera won't be far behind. Guess we'll have to wait and see. I like the form factor, but in the very end, all that matters is what quality video can you get out of it.

Hi Derek,

If you manage to find some chaser footage with the HV20 could you post the link? I am considering taking the plunge as well, and would like to know how it performs. I definitely want to get an HD camcorder, preferably during January so I have a few months to practice (incuding practicing editing) before May! Speaking of editing - what software do you recomend for an HV20 - or any other HD camcorder?

I'll make sure to share anything If I find it. As another user mentioned, youtube has some videos of HV20 footage.

I don't have much experience editing video, but I have done a bit with windows movie maker. (or some similarly named program that comes with Windows XP) For simple editing, this seems to work fine.

I haven't gone into details on any of them yet Billy. I'll have to take a look at the models you mention though. How is their low light performance?

I notice there are two options in HD cams the cmos and what was the other CCD? Wonder which is better? Also while 3 cmos often are considered better than one, I've read that one can be better if it is large enough and uses the proper color control. Then there is the format HDV recorded to mini-dv as opposed to AVCHD. Any opinions on these? Looks like a whole new world to check out.

I remember my old days when originally hunting for a new digital camcorder. I checked out a ton of models and even bought one or two then found they had crappy low light performance or inability to zoom easily and stay on infinity and I took them back. I eventually settled on a vx2000 which is just great all around although perhaps the vx2100 is better.

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The price has gone down $200 in just 2 months, now I wish I would have waited longer. I took my HV20 down to the OKC bombing memorial in Nov one evening to test it out and I finally figured how to get the video from HD to DV last night so I will try and post mine as well. Even when the video has been converted down it still looks way better than my what my old Canon Elura70 could do.

I think the price has dropped because there is an HV30 that will soon come out if not already available. I don't know if any of the improvements will affect what we need as chasers.
http://www.ces-show.com/0131/canon/camcorder/hv30/

Bill Hark

Chasing camcorders and low light don't necessarily have to do with night chasing. Many storm environments shot in daylight around storms are very low light due to cloud cover.

Yep. True. True. True.

I did go to Best Buy the day I posted my last post and actually tested it out. Kind of... Granted it was just the display unit but I did get a feel for it.
The picture on the HD TV it was wired to was down right awesome both in HD and 24p modes. The 24p is not as good as the DVX but to many of us chasers that is not an issue I don't think. If you do not make to many sudden movements it works well while in 24p mode.

Now the kicker; low light. Although I was not able to get them to let me use it with a tape. I was able to talk them into letting me take the unit to a dimly lit area of the store - "The stockroom hallway" lol. It was pretty dark, kind of like the corner of a bar / club. Again, I did not record to tape but I did try it out just by using the view finder. Here are my results:

First I shot it in HD. It did well IMO. I could see a good amount of detail through the view finder. I messed with the shutter speeds and the lower I went the better the quality got. Will it work for chasing in the dim storm environments? I think it will do just fine if you mess with the shutter speed along with using 24p mode.

Second I tried it in 24p mode. This is where you get the most of these dark lit areas. If the shutter speed was dropped to the lowest setting (sorry I can’t remember what that was now) it was actually very good. You could see just about everything in good detail.

The things I did not like about the camera.

1.) The eye piece is NOT adjustable so when you need to use it you either have to bend down and cock your neck just right or you have to have the camera up to your eye level for a comfortable view.

2.) The focus bar is so small it is very hard to control if you have large fingers. I do not and I even had a hard time with it. Also if you have the view finder tilted back it gets in the way of the focus button.

3.) 24p was shaky with quick movements.

4.) One other thing I did not like about the unit is the digital zoom. Naturally all digital zoom units get very pixilated when you zoom in VERY close. The HV20 has a 200x digital zoom and once you get to about 100x it get rather grainy so just a word of caution.

Other than that I have no other complaints right now. I will end up buying the unit from B&H at the end of the month so I will shoot some test footage and post it here if you would like.

BTW: The sales guy was a little pissed that I did not buy the camera after he spent 45 minutes with me lol.

Mick

A note on shooting 24p, you have to be careful with "strobing". 24p mimics the effect of film, and includes the drawbacks of it. If you move the camera too much, your results may be unsatisfactory. It's why when movies are filmed, careful time and consideration are put into panning and swooping shots so it's all smooth and perfect.

It may not be the best choice of jiggling handheld storm footage.

I have the Panasonic DVX100A - the king of the the first 24p cameras.

Does anyone have any chase video samples that were shot with the HV20? I've been researching this camera also but am very leery on taking the plunge. I checked YouTube and they did have many video samples, but with YouTube's lower video resolution output, I really can't see the clarity I'm looking for.

I too have been looking at the camera. After reading the review at camcorder info, I have no doubts you're going to get a good picture. All the user reviews have been positive as well.

My only question is exactly what it'll perform like for a storm chaser in low light situations.

That said, considering its low light ratings as compared to other camcorders out there -- very solid -- and considering that I've seen plenty of nice video done in low light that looks good enough and probably isn't done by extremely expensive camcorders, I'm guessing it would perform just fine.

However, I'd really like to see some storm chaser footage on one of them before taking the plunge.

6th Avenue Electronics has the HV20 priced $687.13 shipped, no tax unless you are in NJ or NY:
http://www.6ave.com/shop/Product.aspx?sku=CANHV20

They are a reputable dealer as well:
http://reviews.pricegrabber.com/6th-ave-electronics/r/407/

I'd love to pull the trigger on this.

All motion picture film is shot 24FPS. Any Hollywood movie transfered from film to DVD is still in 24FPS on the DVD, it takes up less space less space, so less compression is needed. Leaving the camera in that mode for better low light performance is not a problem for me.

I don't like the looks of any video lightning shots, so that is a non-issue for me as well.

I'm torn between getting the HV20 or an image stabilizing lens for my still cam.

Just an unclear thought here, couldn't you use an 8mm low light cam then copy it into the HD cam? It works for DV so just wondering about HD

That said, here are the links.

I checked out your wmv footage Donald - very pretty. The camera seems to do a nice detailed job with clouds. It's still tough to tell on low light though.

Also I saw one of these in Best Buy yesterday and was checking it out. I switched between standard and 24p mode and I see what you mean about the slight stutter. You are right though not nearly as bad as progressive on a vx2000. If you move the camera fairly slow it should be ok generally.

I couldn't get the camera out of Auto mode though. Isn't there a manual mode where it won't focus unless you use the manual dial or the focus button? How do you get it into that mode?

Thanks for subbing some footage. Maybe you should post to Youtube like others.

If anyone wants to see the footage of the small tornado, let me know and I'll upload it to a public location when I get the chance. I've since tested it quite a bit in low-light conditions (at dusk, for instance) and it has performed rather well.

Glad to hear from someone who has the unit and has worked with it. Thanks Donald!

I think many of us would love to see your video indeed. If you need a place to upload it to let me know and I will give you some space on my server for the video clip.

Thanks!

Mick

I beg of you with no interest in this transaction. Do not buy from these people. Buy from BH if your going to buy. Mark my words.. You will be sorry if you pay these people your hard earned cash.

I'll back you up here. In researching digital SLRs a while back I came across this outfit and found out that they're not a trust worthy organization. (if they're who I'm thinking of) Couple more like them with unusually low prices. Too good to be true? You got it.

Also: the Canon HV20 HDV, I think I've got a new equipment crush.

I wish I could find that last review I was talking about. Actually the lens WASN'T larger, it just looked like it until you got a good close look.

There is some speculation that after this comes out, a much more "professional" version of this camera won't be far behind. Guess we'll have to wait and see. I like the form factor, but in the very end, all that matters is what quality video can you get out of it.

Yeah David I read both of those comments on a forum talking about it:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/experiences/aero.mspx

Here's Sony Promotional video on YouTube:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5HmX6GlKCFo

I've got two plasma tv's one operating at 720P and the other at 768P with Dish HD and there's no doubt HD can be beautiful. I'd love to keep and document all my storms on it whether I sold video or just for my own pleasure or to share with other chasers. HD is sweet!

I shot a quick low light shoot, which was comparable to a low light storm environment, this morning and I am VERY impressed. No I am EXTREMELY impressed. I don't think any chaser will have problems with the HV20 in a a low lit storm environment until you get to the point of having no light at all. I will try and post the 15sec clip this evening but it will be compressed and will not serve as much justice to the true quality.

For now you will have to take my word for it but you will not be disappointed in the HV20's quality. It produces a fantastic picture even on SD TVs. Matter of fact I showed some test footage to Rob Satkus and Shane Adams the other day and I was very surprised at Shane�s reaction to the quality. He does not get excited about things like that but he sure did on this one. Now he wants on himself, I was really shocked.

Must have and worth the low $700

Mick

Hey this is great stuff guys. Thanks for all the info and research as it will pay us all dividends. I'm starting to get a little excited about this.

How stuttery is the HD20 in 24P mode? I remember my Vx2000 has a progressive mode and when you switch to it it's like you are in slow motion - very jerky. It is unusable IMO. Is the 24P mode that bad?

Someone might experiment with Cinema mode. I saw some Youtube video shot in the dark in Cinema and it looked pretty good.

I watched all the low light HD20 vid on Youtube but it was hard to tell as they were usually shooting pictures of light sources. Some of the low light shots looked a bit blocky or pixelated, but that may have just been due to low quality youtube video file sizes, etc.

If you do some test footage, try and make it realistic to chasing. Go out a dusk and shoot at clouds and see what you get. Try early on and then as it gets to total dark. If comparison footage of a good low light cam could be run at the same time that would be super good - such as with a Vx2000 or Vx2100. Then we could really tell the difference.

It would also be great to see what we get with lightning. On one of the Youtube videos they had a party in the dark with strobe lights going and the video seemed to handle it well.

I think many of us would love to see your video indeed. If you need a place to upload it to let me know and I will give you some space on my server for the video clip.
Mick

I have a place to upload it and will do so this weekend if I get the chance and post the URL here (I'm already pretty busy, but hope to have a little free time). If there are any particular lighting situations you or anyone else are interested in, let me know and I'll try to see if I either already have an example or can approximate those conditions. I need to break the cam out again and play around anyway in preparation for spring, as it's been awhile since I used it much.

My Panny AVCHD HSC1u cam uses a SD card variant to save the footage on. Solid State! I love this aspect. The computer to edit on the other hand will require me a new purchase of a much much more speedier CPU, RAM and MB along with upgrading my software to Vegas 8. All in all probably 3k to edit properly. Thats the down side.

Well I received my HV20 today but have not had to much time to mess with it. I did watch the JumpStart DVD that came with it though and this unit does even have some of the features pro-cams have.

I will do some low light shooting over the weekend and post them here although I am sure due to the web file compressions the quality will lack. We will see.

The real test comes in a few months ;}

BTW B&H has them for $679 FREE SHIPPING

Mick

The price has gone down $200 in just 2 months, now I wish I would have waited longer. I took my HV20 down to the OKC bombing memorial in Nov one evening to test it out and I finally figured how to get the video from HD to DV last night so I will try and post mine as well. Even when the video has been converted down it still looks way better than my what my old Canon Elura70 could do.

B&H has a great deal on the Canon HV-20 right. It's not as good as it was a few days ago (included a $150 gift card), but it is still good:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/481076-REG/Canon_2059B001_HV20_2_96MP_CMOS_HDV.html

$750, free shipping, no tax for most, and a $75 gift card.

James

I knew I should have waited just a bit longer. I got the HV-20 for $850 including shipping just over a month ago. I have only taken it out once so far, but I have really enjoyed that camcorder. It really is a good camera. If I would have seen that deal and didnt have this camera yet, I would be all over that.

Bill, have you checked into the Canon line of HD cameras? I have both the XH-A1 and the XL-H1. Both offer a spectacular image.

Here is video I made of the OKC National Memorial in November one night just after I got my HV20.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0mingevEMo

CCDs are better than CMOS for chasing, as CMOS chips tend to have worse low-light performance. Many CMOS chip cameras have rolling shutter problems which make them useless for lightning, although I've seen footage from a few newer CMOS cameras that do OK with it. CMOS chips do better in well-lit situations than most CCDs. AVCHD is supposed to be a slightly better compression codec than HDV, but at the expense of needing more processing power to handle it on the computer end. AVCHD is not yet supported in many editing software packages.

Unfortunately the rule of thumb with anything shoulder-mounted that is priced cheaply is that it is something to avoid. The shoulder-mount form factor makes it 'look' like a pro camera, but when you look at the specs, it is really an overpriced version of a smaller consumer camera, packaged into the shoulder-mount shell at nearly twice the cost.

This the same phenomenon as the old DVC-7. Shoulder mount camera sold as a 'pro' cam, with the specs of a single-CCD consumer cam at 2 or 3 times the price. Those things sold like hotcakes just because of their looks, but everyone who bought one said the picture quaity was disappointing.

The specs are all that matters. Lux rating below 3, zoom length, manual focus, infinity lock, and either 3CCD or non-rolling shutter CMOS are things to look for.

Never mind..I finally got hold of the sales guy online and he said that wasn't the complete kit. The actual kit they have listed for $4499, though I believe he said it was currently going for $2999. Hmm....

He recommended instead the Sony HVR-A1U which is normally $2999 but onsale for $2499 this week:
http://www.bestpricecameras.com/prodetails.asp?prodid=484329

I beg of you with no interest in this transaction. Do not buy from these people. Buy from BH if your going to buy. Mark my words.. You will be sorry if you pay these people your hard earned cash.

I showed some test footage to Rob Satkus and Shane Adams the other day and I was very surprised at Shane’s reaction to the quality. He does not get excited about things like that but he sure did on this one. Now he wants on himself, I was really shocked.Must have and worth the low $700

That last line sold me. I'm appreciative of "top" quality video, but IMO it's not worth a $2500 price hike from what I'm shooting now. The difference isn't that impressive to justify the cost IMO. Now, you give me a noticeable improvement in quality like the HV20 demonstrated last weekend for $700, and you bet your life I'm upgrading. It won't be this year but in 2009, and I could care less that this technology won't be state-of-the-art in 2009. I'm about what I like for the right price, not spending a fortune to have the "cutting edge" label selling point.

It's nice to finally see a top-notch format (IMO) designed for the little guy.

Stay away from Best Price Cameras and any seller offering at those prices - they are a classic 'bait and switch' scam shop! Always check resellerratings.com, or better yet just stick with B&H. If it is steeply discounted, the place is a scam. There are no true deals like that in the realm of cameras. You will never get the camera with everything that is supposed to come with it at that price, and may never get it at all. Read the thousands of horror stories at resellerratings.com. These places are well-known criminals but somehow allowed to keep operating.

Ah!!!! Finally. This was driving me mad. I've spent a few hours trying to find this new professional Hd camcorder the HVR-HD1000U MSRP $1999
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-Drops-the-Bottom-on-Pro-HDV-Camcorders-with-the-HVR-HD1000U-33224.htm

What do the rest of you think? Is anyone familiar with this hd cam?

Note these are listed online at B&H Photo for $1599 but they show out of stock but will be shipped when in stock.

It includes Super Night Shot. I wonder if that mode would be reasonable for night tornadoes? I know I used to use the old Night Shot mode on one of their analog camcorders and it worked better than nothing to help see tornadoes in low light in lightning.

Looks like it uses a single Clearvid CMOS and records up to 1080i on mini-dv tapes in MPEG-2 format.

Min Illumination 4 Lux f1.6 at 18 db. Will also shoot 6 megapixel stills.

I have a place to upload it and will do so this weekend if I get the chance and post the URL here (I'm already pretty busy, but hope to have a little free time). If there are any particular lighting situations you or anyone else are interested in, let me know and I'll try to see if I either already have an example or can approximate those conditions. I need to break the cam out again and play around anyway in preparation for spring, as it's been awhile since I used it much.

Well, the small tornado footage was OK but not as good as I remembered it being--it was much better than the other stuff I shot May 5, but still a bit on the grainy side due to the short exposure. Anyway, I recalled a little time-lapse of some airmass thunderstorms I took while doing yard work one day--it is less grainy and will hopefully be of some help. The file is MPEG-2 and therefore huge, nearly 600 MB for about 2 1/2 minutes of footage. I tried converting it to Windows Media (~100 MB), but apparently my computer can't handle decoding and playing it back in real-time that format--it stutters quite a bit, and this computer is not exactly a dog (dual-core with 2GB RAM). Just goes to show how CPU-intensive HD footage is, but I've included both links in case anyone wants to try the WMV file. Also, as an FYI, encoding this short clip into WMV took well over an hour, so if you're considering moving to HD, be sure your computer is pretty fast and be prepared to have to wait a long time for footage to render into a new format, as HD requires roughly an order of magnitude more CPU power than SD. HD is awesome and worth the extra effort IMO, but it'll probably be 2-3 years before the average desktop PC can better handle editing HD footage.

That said, here are the links. I forgot to de-interlace the footage, but if you use VLC to play back the MPEG-2 file, you can set it to de-interlace on the fly. The WMV file is still uploading, so if that link doesn't work try again in a few minutes.

http://www.ounhat.com/video/timelapse.mpg
http://www.ounhat.com/video/timelapse.wmv

If anyone has any questions, don't hesitate to ask, though I may not be of much help as I'm pretty new at this stuff.

The LCD on HD cameras can be deceiving especially with low-light scenes. You should never judge an HD picture by the LCD - wait until you can get it on an HDTV or a big computer monitor. The low light grain and artifacting that will be highly visible on a 52 inch plasma will not be apparent on the tiny LCD.

Bill,

Well you have to use manual focus because there is no infinity button on the unit. As far as the level of difficulty to get the unit to infinity focus, I think one will just have to get use to that little focus scroll button / control. Once one get use to it I don’t think it will be that hard. Not to say he / she will like though…

One other thing I did not like about the unit is the digital zoom. Naturally all digital zoom units get very pixilated when you zoom in VERY close. The HV20 has a 200x digital zoom and once you get to about 100x it get rather grainy so just a word of caution.

Mick

My wife and I own an HV20, so I can clarify a couple of points here.

There is indeed a focus button that switches between manual, automatic and infinity. The catch is that to get to infinity you have to hold it down for several seconds--the camera initially displays the infinity symbol on the LCD, but it's a bit confusing because once you zoom in or out the camera then displays an "M" which is exactly the same as in manual mode, even though it is still in infinity.

The camera has 10x optical zoom and the digital zoom can be disabled, which is what I have done--no way I'm going to shoot footage with the camera digitally zoomed.

It is true the camera has a rather small zoom button that was a little awkward to use at first, especially since I have large fingers. However, after a little practice I became used to it and it's no longer a problem.

Footage quality is excellent. Unfortunately, I got the unit just before two of my biggest chase days of the year (May 4/5), and didn't realize I had it set in aperture-takes-priority mode on the fastest possible shutter speed (1/2000) until after the chase (suffice it to say I've since educated myself thoroughly about every aspect of the camcorder). So I was out there trying to adjust the camera for the low lighting on both days (which meant I was adjusting the aperture only and not the shutter speed), and got mediocre footage at best--at least of the bigger tornadoes I saw near/after dark. I do have some tripoded footage from earlier in the day on May 5 when there was plenty of light, and it looks phenomenal in full-resolution--though of course it's of a pathetic dust whirl tornado instead of the monsters we saw near/after dark. ;)

If anyone wants to see the footage of the small tornado, let me know and I'll upload it to a public location when I get the chance. I've since tested it quite a bit in low-light conditions (at dusk, for instance) and it has performed rather well.