I just lost my Father and had to cancel a trip to New York this weekend. Instead, I have to fly to Chicago for the funeral. I was amazed upon learning that AA would not waive the $100.00 "change fee" under these circumstances. Also, since the bereavement fare for this market is $600.00, I used miles to get tickets for my mother and myself. AA would not even waive the $75.00 "expedite fee." I should add that I'm an AAdvantage Platinum member as well.
I also had to cancel my reservation at the Grand Hyatt. Even though it was subject to a one night charge, Hyatt was kind enough to waive the fee due to the circumstances. When UA was my preferred airline, they always waived the fee for illness in the family and the like.
Is AA always this heartless, especially for their better customers?
[This message has been edited by Neal (edited 10-18-2001).]
Texana: I purchase my insurance from TravelGuard. Their policy is that if you purchase the insurance within 7 days of purchasing your trip, you are covered for pre-existing conditions. So I don't think I'll have a problem with it, it's just that it's hard to believe that an airline would be this dumb when it comes to good will. Hope all goes well with your Mom. Arlene
Who gives you the right to make such horrid comments BENOIT??? Just who the hell do you think you are? You are senseless, heartless and should be banished from this board!! What the heck are you doing here anyway if you are going to act like that. No one wants those comments and no one deserves those commments. Just get lost!!
Neal, please accept my condolences.
[This message has been edited by starbaby84 (edited 10-19-2001).]
Neal,
My deepest sympathies.
I am almost in your shoes. We were supposed to fly to Puerto Rico on the 11th of this month for a cruse. My husband has lung cancer and developed a heart problem and was in the hospital for two weeks. We had to cancel. I wanted to try and delay the trip instead of cancelling since I did have insurance, but AA was so nasty and insisted on the $100. per ticket change fee that it was cheaper for me to cancel and collect the insurance. I assure you I will try to use other airines in the future as my way to protest their lousy lack of compassion.
First of all, my consolences on your loss.
Regarding the ticket, hang in there. Just cancel the one you had and tell them that you will reticket it for another trip later. If it's an e-ticket, get the 6-character locator code. Then when things settle down a bit but within a month (or else the ticket may get archived and you'll have to deal with Refunds http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif ), take a copy of the death notice with you to FLL at a slow time and ask a supervisor there if you can get some help.
Regarding the expedite fee, I'm afraid you're pretty much out of luck on that one. It's an annoying fee, but AA's policy is that you can order awards in advance without tickets and then you don't have to pay the $75 fee. It stinks, but it's excrutiatingly well-documented.
Good luck...
Arlene, I've been ripped off by travel cancellation insurance, even when I read the policy down to the last dot. It can be very disappointing. Yes, the airlines should be more into good will, but these days it is just rare.
Now the only way I can get mother to cruise is to drive from her home near Tampa to the Tampa port. Which means a small selection, but that doesn't matter. Cruises are so cheap now, it's worth doing.
Benoit,
Your comments were pathetic, to say the least. Get some class, pal.
Wow, I hate when boards take on tones like this as I'm sure many others at FT do.
First Neal I am truely sorry for your loss and I agree that while there might not be much AA can do about the $75 fee for the award tickets, you might have success in AA waiving the $100 fee at a later date WITH documentation. While it is a buisiness, I stil feel the company and people at AA actually care about their customers and will be understanding.
Second, stated simply, I too disagree with Benoit's comments but let's focus on suggestions to help Neal and not bash others. I guess if I put a post up as Neal did, it wouldn't help me much in these circumstances to have to read all the personal attacks agaist someone else.
Neal: Sorry about your loss. Benoit: Don't agree with you. Elmhurst: Your advice is good--Fax'em a death certificate in the future and hold your breath and hope that they have some empathy.
But as to the $75.00 fee--even the squabbling cacophony that manages to run UA does not charge this. OK, it's in the rules, and they are printed. IMO, it's not needed to run the program. It's like I invite you to my house for a nice dinner, and ask you to pay parking. It just basically sucks, and I will never be persuaded otherwise.
Once again, though, and in all perspective, best wishes, Neal, during this tought time.
------------------
AAExecPlat; Lifetime AAirpass; 3MillMiles; UApremier-PassPlus
Originally posted by crAAzy:
First Neal I am truely sorry for your loss and I agree that while there might not be much AA can do about the $75 fee for the award tickets, you might have success in AA waiving the $100 fee at a later date WITH documentation. While it is a buisiness, I stil feel the company and people at AA actually care about their customers and will be understanding.
I meant to address this in my last post but forgot. I received an email from an American Airlines employee in the awards department. I was told while he may be able to waive the $75.00 fee, there was nothing he could do about the $100.00 change fee. Perhaps I could contact someone in another department for the change fee. Naturally, I have more pressing things for now and will address these issues later.
Thanks so much once again for all the kind words and suggestions.
Neal
Benoit, this is for you: I've watched this excellent thread from its inception. You had comments in an emotionally-charged area that were not in bad faith. You've been on the board many times and with very intelligent posts. I said I didn't agree with you. Others smacked you around. You have responded.
And so I say, "OK,". No ill-will intended. You wanted to tell us about looking at the world through the company's point of view--a potentially unpopular one, and an easy target, for many responses.
I'm not Ghandi or an opportunistic peacemaker, but I say, "let it go". The feelings have all come out. We've all had a chance to check things out from other than our own point's of view. IMO, that's what makes the board work. I was once accused of being a "shill" for AA on somebody's post, and, even though I felt insulted, I just said, "g'day". (AA better never forget that we are, perpetually, their customers)
Hope you have one, too, and, see y'a around.
------------------
AAExecPlat; Lifetime AAirpass; 3MillMiles; UApremier-PassPlus
Originally posted by Neal:
First, I want to say how wonderful the people at AA have been to me. I've been working with two individuals at AA regarding the penalty/expedite charges. Both have been very sympathetic and are willing to help in waiving those fees. "Benoit" was obviously just speculating as to what AA's stance is and could not have been more wrong. AA will be rewarded for this, many times over, by my continuing loyalty for years to come.
What benoit posted was exactly what you'll usually get from the "front-line" staff that you talk to at AA, (most of the time). Most of the time, you have to go a couple levels deep in AA's customer service department to get stuff like this taken care of.
My GF's grandfather passed away suddenly, and we had to get her from SJC-DTW on short notice. I claimed an F ticket for her, using the expedite procedure, and asked them to waive the fee. The first reply was "sorry, we can't do that", I politely asked for a supervisor, and eventually got to someone who agreed to waive the fee if we had the funeral home fax them a letter regarding the circumstances. I was only gold at the time, BTW.
I've found that polite requests to escalate an issue almost always get me much farther than ranting and raving about it (Not casting ANY aspersions here, just an observation).
And if THAT doesn't work, try hanging up, and calling back.
- Plat
I'm leaving for the funeral in Chicago shortly. I just have to say how touched I am by (most)everyone's comments. For the most part, this is a great community.
Neal
Originally posted by benoit:
Sorry about your loss, but AA has its own losses, behind and ahead of it...
You've got to be kidding, comparing the loss of a father to AA being on the skids cuz they spent all their profits running other airlines out of business.
Your comparison is beyond heartless.
It's one thing to debate whether it's realistic to expect a refund on a non-refundable ticket but gee whiz go easy on the mourners.
Originally posted by Neal:
Overall, AA has been quite good to me since I switched from UA. I wrote a letter to customer relations and am hoping they waive at least one of the fees. If not, it isn't the worst thing in the world.
No, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but it is something which would be remembered, & is a form of "salt in a wound".
I have read of many FTers whose allegiance to a particular airline was cemented by acts of kindness extended to them when faced w/ the sudden need for a bereavement flight.
I have also read of those who were able to be present for the last moments of a loved one's life due to the actions of an airline which extended effort to make it both possible, & affordable.
What these things can mean to someone is beyond words, & beyond comparison...& will not be forgotten.
I understand that airlines need to have rules & various financial penalty-related policies, & I understand why they are enforced most of the time, but we also understand what it can mean to someone to have an exceptional circumstance treated in an exceptional way.
What a situation such as this requires is customer service in the form of human understanding, not policy enforcement.
While it may require the involvement of supervisory personnel to authorize a change fee waiver, it should nonetheless happen.
Neal, I am very sorry for your loss.
I do hope that American Airlines does what is considered right in the eyes of so many...
Neal,
Very sorry to hear about your loss. Good to hear that AA is helping you out and that your mother enjoyed AA. Hang in there... we are all here for you.
Dear Marysunshine, did you buy your trip insurance after your husband was diagnosed with cancer? They might not pay! I used to put trip insurance every time I took my elderly mother on a cruise, only to find out that the insurance meant nothing as she was well past 80 and had a number of pre-existing conditions. Of course, policies vary.
I found it better (for me) to buy mother and I air tickets that were changeable and hope for the best with the cruise company.
I'm sorry that you missed your cruise! I know that a real rest can mean so much when you have an ill person in the family.
Unfortunately for honest people with real problems, many dishonest people played the system for what they could get. Up until a few years ago, a letter from your physician could get a ticket changed.
Benoit, if it's constructive criticism you want, then try this: sometimes it's not what you say but how you say it.
I take the general point of your post to be as follows:
"Unfortunately, those who have tried to decieve the airlines with excuses in the past have put them in a position to clamp down on such practices. This can be a big problem for the airlines when faced with a passenger who is truly in the midst of a tragic situation, as you are now."
Now, what's wrong with saying it that way instead?
---
Sometimes, it's not what you say, it's what you don't say. Your last two paragraphs were completely unnecessary and are probably, if I were to guess, what really set people off. There was no need for them, and the thoughts expressed therein detract from your credibility in trying to make a point.
This has got to be the most civil board on FT. Let's try to keep it that way, folks.
Back to the topic...
Neal my condolences on your loss. I strongly second ElmhurstNick's suggestion that you try and deal with this in person with a supervisor when things are a little less hectic for you. You have a lot to deal with now; put this on the back burner for now--I'm sure the folks at AA will come through.
[This message has been edited by SuperSlug (edited 10-19-2001).]
I admit I don't understand the reaction to my post. Rereading it, I think it gave a good perspective on why airlines are hesitant to wave change fees, especially in light of recent crises.
It also pointed out the difficulty airlines have in verifying the truth of claims made or determining which causes to wave or not.
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Are these points not accurate? The post also made the suggestion to reset expectations about having fees waved, I think it is a good one. As usual with requests like this, it's ok to ask, but don't be surprised if airlines refuse and stick by the rules. The post also offered condolences, and pointed out that AA had its own losses. Spyder unfairly called this comparing a financial loss with a death, pointedly ignoring the fact that AA had recently had many employee deaths and still is in mourning.
Here is my perspective -- in general I don't like seeing airlines unfairly demonized, and like to help people reset their expectations realistically. Realistic expectations result in people being happier. If you always expect your nonrefundable ticket to be refunded, your happiness level will be lower than if you expected the terms of purchase upheld. Educating people can also make them happier -- if you think AA is just rejecting a waiver to be mean and arbitrary, you might be more frustrated than if you knew they had good reasons for their actions.
Nearly all responses only seemed to offer insults, or suggestions to leave. If it makes you happy to offer more of the same, go wild, I don't mind. If instead you have something specific to address in my post, please educate me so I can do better in future. I'm not beyond improvement you know. I may well have made a mistake, but none of the responses give me an understanding of what that might be.
Here it is again:
---
I think you'd be happier if you set your expectations more realistically.
Everyone has a good excuse, or can make one up. It's also not really fair to put employees in the position of making judgement calls on which excuse is good enough or true to waive. Doing this also encourages customers to complain more forcefully to get their way.
maybe it would be more heartless to bankrupt the company and thus throw huge numbers of people out of work by not enforcing the rules on the tickets it sells. If you think that is an exageration consider what would happen if the refundable ticket market dried up because people with non-refundables could get their way by complaining ardently enough. Give them a little slack eh, the company is a little desperate now as you know. Maybe a couple months ago they had more luxury to give more slack.
Sorry about your loss, but AA has its own losses, behind and ahead of it...
I think you'd be happier if you set your expectations more realistically.
Everyone has a good excuse, or can make one up. It's also not really fair to put employees in the position of making judgement calls on which excuse is good enough or true to waive. Doing this also encourages customers to complain more forcefully to get their way.
maybe it would be more heartless to bankrupt the company and thus throw huge numbers of people out of work by not enforcing the rules on the tickets it sells. If you think that is an exageration consider what would happen if the refundable ticket market dried up because people with non-refundables could get their way by complaining ardently enough. Give them a little slack eh, the company is a little desperate now as you know. Maybe a couple months ago they had more luxury to give more slack.
Sorry about your loss, but AA has its own losses, behind and ahead of it...
Neal, Please accept my condolences as well. I agree with the concept that you should make another request for waiver(s) when things calm down.
I believe that as a Platinum customer you have earned the right to receive additional consideration at a time like this. Perhaps AA should institute reduced change fees (for elite or perhaps all customers)when a request is accompanied by proper documentation of a death or severe hardship.
Originally posted by benoit:
I reject the criticisms and stand by my comments as written.
Could it be he's bitter because he probably tried the fake dead grandmother trick for himself and it back fired on him?
Originally posted by Spyder:
Your comparison is beyond heartless.
Spyder: I really appreciate your comments. I was really offended when I read "benoit's" comments. But I really can't think straight right now and was afraid everyone else's comments would be the same.
Overall, AA has been quite good to me since I switched from UA. I wrote a letter to customer relations and am hoping they waive at least one of the fees. If not, it isn't the worst thing in the world.
[This message has been edited by Neal (edited 10-18-2001).]
My prayers and thoughts are with you!
Don't let this get you down. You and your mom need each other's strength right now. This can be resolved in the future.
benoit - I wonder what YOUR attitude would be if the shoe was on the other foot. Let me guess, you have NEVER complained about unfair charges airlines imposed on you,like for changing a flight, increase in fare, etc. How about cancelled flights for no apparent reason? Ever get mad at the airlines for that, or do you just chalk it up to airlines trying to improve the bottom line? I seriouly doubt it.
Neal, sorry to hear your losses.
U might want to try to write a formal letter of complaint to AA about this. they might not waive the $100 but they might give you a $100 voucher good on OW travel.
Beniot: your comments are uncalled for.
------------------
Albert
You were offended by benoit's remarks because they WERE offensive. I, too am sorry for your loss.
Benoit; Your comments were insensitive. The airline does not feel as you do.
The post also offered condolences, and pointed out that AA had its own losses. Spyder unfairly called this comparing a financial loss with a death, pointedly ignoring the fact that AA had recently had many employee deaths and still is in mourning.
[/B]
I might be more sympathetic to AA if AA Executive Management had not attempted to deny life insurance benefits to employees who died in the 9-11 air crashes, had not used 9-11 to bilk taxpayers out of hundreds of millions of dollars, and had not used 9-11 to lay-off tens of thousands of workers without severance.
That AA had no financial contingency or disaster planning to deal with these types of events is quite troubling, especially after such a sustained growth in the volume and profitability of air travel in the 1990's.
I doubt that any of AA exec mgmt have mourned the passing of their employees in quite the same way that Neal might mourn his father. That you would even bring this concern up as a reason for AA not to deal wiht Neal's request doubly represents your callousness.
Do you work for the PR dept. at AA or is it just your personal mission to "reset people's expectations to match yours."
Benoit: I've been reading these boards for two years, and although I've read some dumb stuff I've never actually posted my reaction to them. Here's a link for ya:
http://www.planebusiness.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
I suggest you use that board because comments like that aren't welcome here.
Neal: Deepest condolences over your loss, I'm positive that if you look around the airline you'll find someone who can help you out. I wouldn't let an initial contact to the Platinum desk get you down.
Neal, I am sorry for your loss.
Paying fees is always bad. Paying fees under the impression that some company is taking advantage of one's situation only makes things worse.
I'd say any standard company understands a loss in the family; Being a Platinum member, they're prone to reconsider on a case-by-case basis.
Don't get too stressed over these daily issues. Just take some time to be and help your family and within days and when you have more time to think on trivial issues pursue what you (and I) think it's reasonable.
Again, truly sorry again for your loss.
Originally posted by benoit:
I reject the criticisms and stand by my comments as written.
Oh well add one more a-hole to the increasing list on these boards.
Mike
Originally posted by benoit:
I think you'd be happier if you set your expectations more realistically.
I agree that non-refundable means non-refundable. I didn't see Neal asking for a refund. I saw him asking the airline not to fine him $100 for canceling a ticket for an event that was outside his control.
Just like AA says they are not under any obligation to do anything for their customers if weather forces them to cancel a flight (aside from rebooking them on the next flight), Neal shouldn't have to pay the fine because his father's death forced him to cancel his trip.
The fact that he is a Platinum flyer makes it even more egregious. Keep irritating your best customers, its truly the road to success. I'm sure the $100 will be worth it in the long run if he switches his 50K+ miles to another carrier.
[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited 10-19-2001).]
Neal,
You and your mother are in my prayers. It has been my experience that airlines put you on hold while they call the hospital or funeral home to verify the information before
issuing a bereavement fare. Maybe there is a different proceedure for award tickets - try calling back and talking to someone else.
[This message has been edited by flowerchild (edited 10-19-2001).]
First, I want to say how wonderful the people at AA have been to me. I've been working with two individuals at AA regarding the penalty/expedite charges. Both have been very sympathetic and are willing to help in waiving those fees. "Benoit" was obviously just speculating as to what AA's stance is and could not have been more wrong. AA will be rewarded for this, many times over, by my continuing loyalty for years to come.
On a related note, I want to tell you about the trip to Chicago with my mother. Until now, the only other time my mother flew First Class was when my brother and I sent both our parents to Hawaii for their 50th anniversary. (Last June was their 63rd!) My father was not into the "miles scene" and therefore always flew Coach with my mom. I used miles to get the two First Class tickets to Chicago for the funeral. I could not get over how much my mother enjoyed it!! She would not stop talking about the wonderful seats, service and food. I too was impressed with how great the flights were since they were both on MD-80s. (This was my first trip on AA MD-80s since switching over from UA.) I used to fly TWA years ago and will never forget how cramped it seemed in First Class on that type aircraft. The Admirals club visit at ORD was the icing on the cake for my mother. I just wish the trip could have been under happier circumstances. Now, I have to get my mom the proper mileage credit cards and teach her how to accumulate miles. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Thanks, once again, to everyone for all the kind words. Thanks again AA for such great service both in the air and on the ground during this most difficult time.
[This message has been edited by Neal (edited 10-31-2001).]
I'm am very sorry for your loss. The apparent hard-hearted attitude of the airline is likely due to the fact that many people over the years who have used all manner of excuses to get around the rules.
If we still had CTO's, I would advise you to go there for assistance; but lacking that resourse, I think that you should call CS.
Tell your story and see what can be done. You can also use an obituary notice as part of your evidence of truth. Once again, we have to do this because some people were dishonest.
For future information of all, I have found Delta to be much more helpful in times of family emergencies. Also, as I have an elder mother, I keep an award certificate at hand at all times. I can take that to the airport and get a ticket very quickly.
I reject the criticisms and stand by my comments as written.
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$100.00 Cancellation Fee Imposed Even For Death In Family!