I don't know if this is the correct place to post it. If not , please feel free to move this post to correct place. My friend need somd suggestion as soon as possible. The following is the post that I copyed from another forum .
On Apr 9th, I got a call from my friend -John, asking me if I need a cheap roundtrip ticket to Beijing, China. He told me his girlfriend, Lydia is working in the travel angency and can issue cheap ticket. ( I have only seen his gf once, I don't even know her name )
Then I contacted her gf , She was using John's cell phone. I told her the departure date and return date. ( Leave on April 27th, come back on July 30th.) Her girlfriend sent the Itinerary to my email address which is as follows:
This itinerary has been brought to you by
Galileo ViewTrip and your travel provider.
For the latest information on your travel plans, view your itinerary at ViewTrip.com.
Reservation Number XXXXXXX
Rgds
Lydia
Agency Information
NEW GOLDEN HORSE TVL
294 Spadina Ave Ste 201
Toronto, ON M5T 2E6
Canada
No agency phone number available
Travelers Mr A
Mr B
Travel Talk Forums::
Post a reply to this message. Jump to most recent post. Share with a friend your friends, and hope their trip takes a turn for the much-much better ASAP.
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Flight - Air Canada (AC) - 103 Toronto to Vancouver Friday, April 27, 2007
Flight - Air Canada (AC) - 29 Vancouver to Beijing Friday, April 27, 2007
Flight - Air Canada (AC) - 32 Beijing to Toronto Monday, July 30, 2007
ViewTrip.com is a means of displaying your reservation via the Internet.
Please contact your Travel Provider for changes or reservation information.
Thank you
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carriage and other services provided by the carrier are subject to conditions of carriage, which are hereby incorporated by reference. These conditions may be obtained from the issuing carrier.
After I read my Itinerary, I told Lydia I want to buy 2 tickets. She ask me to transfer money to a RBC bank Account. I told her I want to use my credit card. She said if I want the discount , I have to transfer the money to a personal account. ( Now I know that is Lydia's personal account. When I transfer the money , I thought that's her boss's account. )
Then I went to TD and withdraw 2200 CAD cash and went to RBC bank, I gave them the account information and did the transfer. ( I still have the bank receipt) Around 4 hours later, I got a email from Lydia again. It's the electronic ticket. I was ready for my trip.
Yesterday (Apr 21th,2007) , When I surf from some forum around 6 pm , I found my name and my friend's name is on the news section of the forum. And the content is that
Ask us to call a 647 *** **** as soon as possible, coz there's some problem with our ticket. Then I called.
A guy picked up the phone , he said he is the general manager of New Golden Horse Travel agent. He said there's some problem with my booking. The travel agent never receive the money from me. And He wanted to meet me to discuss it. I met the manager and their accountant around 8 : 30 PM yesterday in a Tim Hortons. He said Lydia run away with the money, ( She has already left Canada) So the manager told me if I still want the ticket, I have to pay the money again .He said the original price should be 2700 CAD. Since I am also a victim of this Fraud,I just need to pay the same price (2200 CAD) to the travel agent and I can leave and return on the date that I booked. If they don't receive the money from me before Tuesday (Apr 22th, 2007) They will cancel my flight reservations. I told him I will pay again for the ticket on Tuesday. ( I have already made my plan and my friend also arranged everything in China before we come back. So we must leave and return on the orginal date.)
After I got home , I called Air Canada and I gave them my e-ticket number to check if it's cancelled. Air Canada said the ticket is not cancelled , but at this point, I can cancel the ticket , the travel agent also can cancel my ticket. I told the rep the situation, He said I have to contact travel agency.
Then I called my friend Mary who used to work in a travel angency. She told me that it is not our fault. I forward her the intinerary and e-Ticket Receipt from my email address. I also give her the link on Galileo ViewTrip and our reservation number. She told me only higher-level salesperson can issue E-ticket. Normal Salesperson can only book the ticket. I want to report to the police and IATA and let the newspaper know this fraud. But I am afraid that if I report it , the travel agency will cancel my ticket. Because my friend and I really have to leave on Apr 27th and Return on July 30th.
Is there anyone who knows how to deal with this kind of problem?
I am very nervous. I don't want my flight cancelled or pay another 2200 CAD for 2 tickets.
Any Suggestions?
Should I report this to police and IATA now?
thx
David
Wirelessly posted (HTC TyTN: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320) Opera 8.60 [en])
Just call the police. Anything else is a mistake so bad that I for one dont want to keep hearing about it. Im unsubscribing at this point. CALL THE POLICE NOW! Not in July, not next week, not in 10 minutes. NOW.
We don't care about the TA's reputation. David just wants to leave on the original date with his friend. He puts that on the first priority. He will try to get money back after he returns. I will ask him to record the conversation when he goes to pay the money for the flight ticket on Tuesday for future evidence.
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NO! Call the police now. Why does your friend think that if he gives them the additional money that he is going anywhere? Call the police NOW!
it's very interesting to see how the OP responds to the suggestions given by fellow FTers...
call the police...!!!
actually the story told by the op is quite common.
I would suggest that the op, if telling a genuine case, to NOT pay the travel agent. I would suggest getting hold of the names of the victims, the airlines concerns and inform the airlines to withhold the ticket and if possible to ask the airline to make a concession and allow the ticket be sold directly thru their sales office especially if a few people were involved. Perhaps some of our travel agent Fters may advise if Air Canada does have a sales office operated by them not agent at the op's location. a airline tikceting fee may be involved but air canada may waive it if there is proof that a few people were involved.
thx, I'll check with Air Canada if they can withhold the tickets for my friends tomorrow.
called TICO 10 mins ago, they said since David got his money back. They can do nothing about it. We'll ask the two other pessenger to contact TICO. ( they don't get their money back, and their flight might be cancelled).
We will call Toronto Police right now.
I've always wondered about these TA's that offer really good fares to Asia. I think I'd rather take the marginal hit and stick to aircanada.com.
There was a time when the unpublished fares going on AC, for instance, to Asia were so much cheaper with the Asian TA's. It is much different now.
Nowadays, the average discount of going to a TA (an Asian one) for a fare to Asia is about $50-$100 per ticket. Before I purchase a ticket on AC, I will compare an A or L class on both Toureast and AC.com. Within the last two years, I have not seen a savings of more than $100 per ticket. However, I will go with Toureast, for example, to realize such savings because they are reputable. Whether to go with another agency will be debatable.
Look at what the OP's "friend" did here. This friend was so careless as to wire the money to a personal account (mistake #1). This friend probably has no clue of the small difference in fares (which should have been the case) if he had to go to a TA (mistake #2).
This go nowhere Post had to be a 4 pager and continuing. Why the heck weren't the police involved instead of posting on this board ? It reeked something fishy from the get go.:o
Thx guys, My friend David decided to pay 2200 CAD on Tuesday and collect everything that has been suggested in this thread. After he comes back on July 30th, He will report this to the Police and Travel Agencies of Ontario organization , try to get money back.
Because if David follow this suggestion now ----"If he continues to threaten to cancel the ticket, let him know that if he does that you'll take him to court for the amount of whatever replacement ticket you may have to buy. Probably much more than the $2200. "
Although He may win the case later, he cannot leave on the orginal date.
If anyone has other suggestions, please post it. thx ^
PS: the current fare for this trip is 2211 CAD / person before tax on Air Canada website.
NNOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Call the police immediately, not in months from now. Call them tomorrow morning if not tonight! Do not wait!
The manager and accountant met him in a Tim Hortons? Why not at the travel agency? It sounds to me like they're in on it, and if he pays again he'll most likely get suckered again.
One of the best tricks in the con artists bag is to find a way to sucker the victim into paying again.
For heaven's sake, call the police NOW!
This is such a horrible story. I do not think there is a way to sort this out before the original departure date.
I actually disagree with other posters here as to who has the responsibility to report the fraud. It depends on how the situation gets sorted out (i.e., who got defrauded in the end):
Situation 1: The ticket is not cancelled and the OP's friend gets to fly on April 27. In this case, the agency has been shortchanged by Lydia and the agency has been defrauded. So the agency should go to the police.
Situation 2: The ticket is cancelled by the TA and the OP's friend loses out on $2,200. In this case, the friend has been defrauded by Lydia acting in her capacity as an employee of the agency. So the OP's friend should go to the police to report Lydia and the TA.
The TA must know they are on weak grounds here and must know that they are potentially on the hook for the passengers' tickets. If they were adamant on another payment for the tickets, they would have cancelled the ticket right away. There would have been no need to "meet to discuss". So if I were the OP's friend, I would definitely proceed on the assumption that the ticket is good until cancelled.
All this is too confusing. There are the OP, David, John, Lydia and the TA's general manager. I agree with Stranger - the TA sounds way too suspicious. If Lydia and the TA make a deal, would your friend know about this?
It appears that not many of us are lawyers (or if we are, we do not deal regularly with this type of issues). There are issues of fraud, employment law, agency law, contract law and criminal law.
Your "friend" should really seek legal advice on this debacle - pay $250 for someone's advice for an hour... but be prepared to see that $2,200 originally transferred (and any legal fees) go down the tubes.
actually the story told by the op is quite common.
I would suggest that the op, if telling a genuine case, to NOT pay the travel agent. I would suggest getting hold of the names of the victims, the airlines concerns and inform the airlines to withhold the ticket and if possible to ask the airline to make a concession and allow the ticket be sold directly thru their sales office especially if a few people were involved. Perhaps some of our travel agent Fters may advise if Air Canada does have a sales office operated by them not agent at the op's location. a airline tikceting fee may be involved but air canada may waive it if there is proof that a few people were involved.
Do the mods have access to the IP? Maybe Hoyoto's posts can be traced to CHina.
Don't worry, I'm in Toronto .
The travel agency will be responsible for making payment to Air Canada, so if they haven't received the money from you, they may cancel the flights. A fraud has been commited and it should be reported to police. The agency, not you, should be the one reporting it, assuming Lydia was acting as their employee.
yes, I'm beginning to smell a rat. or perhaps a troll.
Do the mods have access to the IP? Maybe Hoyoto's posts can be traced to CHina.
The Viewtrip itinerary could have only been available if an actual booking had been made in the Galileo system of a particular agency.
The responsibility, in my opinion as a travel agent, is that the agency must bear responsibility. You must report this to both the police and to TICO [www.tico.on.ca], the organization in Ontario which in the end may end up either reimbursing the traveller or getting the agent to pay up and acknowledging the loss.
While the whole thing at Tim's is strange, and not a place to hand over payment as a receipt cannot be obtained, the familiarity of the client with Canadian business procedures may be lacking here, and again, ethically, the onus is on the agent. Act immediately. You must have all the ammunition that the law can offer you before you do anything else.
Good advice from someone in the travel business.
Latest news.
John called my friend David and told him his gf Lydia in China can return 2200 CAD. David is arranging his friend in China to pick up the cash . If it's not fake bill , David can use that money to purchase the ticket again. At this point, should we still need to report to the police?
uh, yes. would you want others to go through this? why didn't you contact the police initially? this story doesn't add up right at all and keeps getting stranger.
NNOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Call the police immediately, not in months from now. Call them tomorrow morning if not tonight! Do not wait!
This is too painful to watch. I've just sent a message to the Toronto Police Fraud Squad with a link to this thread.
Latest news.
John called my friend David and told him his gf Lydia in China can return 2200 CAD. David is arranging his friend in China to pick up the cash . If it's not fake bill , David can use that money to purchase the ticket again. At this point, should we still need to report to the police?
Right now there are two other passengers besides David and his friend facing this problem.( I don't think they know their tickets have problems at this moment) One is on one-way ticket leaving from Toronto to ShangHai on July 1st (AC 87) . The other one is roundtrip from Toronto to Beijing (leave June 20th, return Aug 31th)
I am sorry to hear that you have been cheated like this.
To answer your questions, if Lydia was still an employee of the TA then they are responsible for reporting the fraud not you. On the other hand since you do not seems to have a receipt from the TA, you are not on a perfect ground to pursue the matter in court. But you seems to have the e-tickets but I did not see the ticket fees section on the ticket. If you do have that on your e-ticket then you have a good chance to take the TA to court as the ticket is considered paid for.
Note: Your e-ticket still show the names of the passengers, you would want to blank them out.
I give up.
Lydia returned 2200 CAD to David's friend in China , confirmed .
We will also report this to the police today.
Latest news:
David' friend John told David that his girlfriend Lydia contacted the TA, and made a deal. She will return the money to TA. (around 6K, she has spent 2K). And TA will not cancel the remaining passenger's flight and not to report to the police.
Lydia is pretty rich!
There's something fishy about this story.... it's beginning to sound like a fictional novel...
Lydia returned 2200 CAD to David's friend in China , confirmed .
We will also report this to the police today.
Airbus320 you are absolutely correct, tkts are not issued unless payment is received and that is what makes this story even more suspicious.
This is too painful to watch. I've just sent a message to the Toronto Police Fraud Squad with a link to this thread.
Thank you ^
First of all, is this news not already spread out by this thread (and by copying the police)?
Second of all, why are you (and your "friend") at all concerned about this TA's "wonderful" reputation after what you have been through?
If the reputation is so golden, you guys should use that in your negotiation tactics at Timmie Ho.
We don't care about the TA's reputation. David just wants to leave on the original date with his friend. He puts that on the first priority. He will try to get money back after he returns. I will ask him to record the conversation when he goes to pay the money for the flight ticket on Tuesday for future evidence.
I would hold yourself liable for your loss and no one not even AC is responsible for your act.
The OP is apparently posting for a friend. Regardless, no need to pour salt into the wound. If an employee of the agency committed the fraud, the agency may bear some responsibility. But I'm no lawyer, either.
I see that the part of the ticket that indicates how the ticket was actually paid for is conspiciously missing from the image on the post. If I was a betting man (which I'm not) I would wager that the ticket was bought with some poor unsuspecting buggers stolen credit card number.
Not sure how/where you see the payment information missing. Rememe also that this was a TA-issued ticket. They have arrangements. I would say it was on the TA's account with AC.
I also would be surprised if this were a case of CC fraud. Because it's a TA-issued ticket, and the name of the employee is there.
If it were, two weeks would probably not be enough for this to have come back already, *and* the employee would not be introuble and there would have been no reason for her to disappear. And that would be very stupid on the employee's part.
(I have been on the other end of this. Got a ticket charged to a CC of mine. Complained and got it credited back. But I would think there would have been at least a month until the thing would have come back to the airline.)
It's pretty obvious that the OP is in this up to his/her neck. How many times have they been told to call the police and every time they come out with a new story. This stinks to high heaven and I am shocked that FT has not locked this thread and passed along any relevant info to police. Any BB worth there salt can access the IP of a poster. FT should be doing so and forwarding that info to the Toronto Fraud Squad.
The cell phone number there is the personal cell number of the general manager. They also want to cover this thing coz if such news is spread out, there's gonna be huge negative influences on this Famous Asian Travel Agent's reputation. They might be shut down by authorities.
Hoyoto, a number of people in this forum are trying hard to help you. You have to start listening. Call the police now, tonight! If you can't get through tonight, call first thing in the morning.
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/fraud/
Fraud Squad
40 College St., Toronto, ON , M5G 2J3
Phone: 416-808-7300
Fax: 416-808-7302
Unit Commander: Staff Inspector Stephen Harris
Could this actually be "Lydia" trying to see how things may resolve unfavourably towards her and the GM at the TA? :eek:
yes, I'm beginning to smell a rat. or perhaps a troll.
The police just left from David's townhouse. They said they are not gonna report this case. Although what we did is correct, we cannot report it on behalf of remaining two passengers. The remaining two unknown passengers have to report it themselves.
case closed.:D
Anyone who would blindly send cash to another under these circumstances for an airline ticket probably deserves what they get.
I see that the part of the ticket that indicates how the ticket was actually paid for is conspiciously missing from the image on the post. If I was a betting man (which I'm not) I would wager that the ticket was bought with some poor unsuspecting buggers stolen credit card number.
I can tell you that if AC has not been paid the ticket it will not be honoured on the travel date. This sounds a lot like a credit card fraud where tickets are bought online with fraudulent cards and then resold under the table via some availbale only by phone or email "travel agent" or through "a friend". When AC detects this (and they will) the passenger will be denied travel (wherever they are at the time) and will likely face the police themselves when they either check-in or return home.
Cost of stupidity - priceless!!
Looking at the e-ticket link, I see that the e-ticket was issued on 09 April 2007 on 014 stock.
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/6566/eticketla0.jpg
Unless I am missing something in this situation, tickets are not issued unless payment has been accepted.
The pax seems to have a valid e-ticket....and the travel agency bears some financial responsibility for the action of an agent.
I am however not a lawyer....
Thx guys, My friend David decided to pay 2200 CAD on Tuesday and collect everything that has been suggested in this thread. After he comes back on July 30th, He will report this to the Police and Travel Agencies of Ontario organization , try to get money back.
Because if David follow this suggestion now ----"If he continues to threaten to cancel the ticket, let him know that if he does that you'll take him to court for the amount of whatever replacement ticket you may have to buy. Probably much more than the $2200. "
Although He may win the case later, he cannot leave on the orginal date.
If anyone has other suggestions, please post it. thx ^
PS: the current fare for this trip is 2211 CAD / person before tax on Air Canada website.
thx accc , so if my friends want to leave on original date.
He has to pay the money again?
From my opinion. the intinerary and e-ticket that Lydia sent to my friend is formal. So she must did that when she was using the computers in the travel agency.
The travel agency shouldn't ask the money from their customers again. If they want the money back. They should report to the police. They can't just cancel customers'flight because their employee's fault.
Called Toronto Police 31 division.
They didn't hear the whole stody and they said they will send someone to David 's place before he leaves.
thx everyone in the thread.
I'll keep you updated.
I just read the OP again.
So he finds a message in a forum, saying "I'm the TA manager, call me at this #" then the guy says meet me at Timmies, then he says you have to pay again by Tuesday. Wanna bet the # given is not the same as the travel agency? How obvious can it be. THE GUY IS IN ON IT!
What kind of travel agency contacts its customers through forum postings?
The cell phone number there is the personal cell number of the general manager. They also want to cover this thing coz if such news is spread out, there's gonna be huge negative influences on this Famous Asian Travel Agent's reputation. They might be shut down by authorities.
it's very interesting to see how the OP responds to the suggestions given by fellow FTers...
call the police...!!!
Could this actually be "Lydia" trying to see how things may resolve unfavourably towards her and the GM at the TA? :eek:
Hmm, let's see. Somehow, the flyer flagged down on another board that he was being "paged" by the TA to call them. How does the flyer know about this?
How is it that the OP knows of other people who got defrauded by Lydia?
I say - stop giving this guy (gal) advice NOW!
If Hoyoto is indeed one of Lydia or Timmie Ho GM, then you will be going to jail.
Call the Metro Toronto Police Fraud Squad. That's how we deal with such matters in this country. Also, tomorrow contact the Travel Agencies of Ontario organization which all TAs must register with. The manager is being less than ingenuous about this situation, and he is as guilty as your friend for hiring such an employee. (BTW are TAs not supposed to be bonded?)
It should have been a red flag when she asked for cash, no matter what the rationalization is. This fare is only marginally better than what could have been purchased on the AC website at $1200 per person. So look at all the aggrivation and problems because you tried to save a few dollars!
I just read the OP again.
So he finds a message in a forum, saying "I'm the TA manager, call me at this #" then the guy says meet me at Timmies, then he says you have to pay again by Tuesday. Wanna bet the # given is not the same as the travel agency?
What kind of travel agency contacts its customers through forum postings?
link for Intinerary http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/629/itineraryhe1.jpg
link for e-ticket http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/6566/eticketla0.jpg
When my friend David bought the flight ticket from Lydia. He doesn't know Lydia will run away with the money.
Now his concern is that Should he pay another 2200 CAD to get the ticket or not? I think the travel agency are trying to transfer the loss to the customers. coz there are a few other customers facing the same problem.
Lydia returned 2200 CAD to David's friend in China , confirmed.
All together now...
Call the Metro Toronto Police Fraud Squad. That's how we deal with such matters in this country. Also, tomorrow contact the Travel Agencies of Ontario organization which all TAs must register with. The manager is being less than ingenuous about this situation, and he is as guilty as your friend for hiring such an employee. (BTW are TAs not supposed to be bonded?)
It should have been a red flag when she asked for cash, no matter what the rationalization is. This fare is only marginally better than what could have been purchased on the AC website at $1200 per person. So look at all the aggrivation and problems because you tried to save a few dollars!
Ding, ding ding. First correct answer.
Your friend needs to get the local authorities involved in this NOW and should pick up the phone and call them NOW. Best of luck.
The Viewtrip itinerary could have only been available if an actual booking had been made in the Galileo system of a particular agency.
The responsibility, in my opinion as a travel agent, is that the agency must bear responsibility. You must report this to both the police and to TICO [www.tico.on.ca], the organization in Ontario which in the end may end up either reimbursing the traveller or getting the agent to pay up and acknowledging the loss.
While the whole thing at Tim's is strange, and not a place to hand over payment as a receipt cannot be obtained, the familiarity of the client with Canadian business procedures may be lacking here, and again, ethically, the onus is on the agent. Act immediately. You must have all the ammunition that the law can offer you before you do anything else.
This sounds like one of those drama series you watch on tv. I have never known anyone who would transfer money to unknown people's accounts. Especially after you hear all the stories about fraud etc. When you buy a ticket you either go to the TA's office or you pay by credit card so as to protect yourself. I would hold yourself liable for your loss and no one not even AC is responsible for your act.
The ticket is still valid at this moment.
If my friend David doesn't pay 2200 CAD to the TA on Tuesday, They will definitely cancel the two tickets. Air Canada may chage TA around 25% of penalty fee.
First thing to verify: can they really do that?
Second, at the very least you should have proof that you sent to money to Lydia *and* clearly she was an employee of the TA. And the ticket was issued.
I think the TA is trying to bully you into paying again because he does not want to lose. I would play hardballs with them.
1. You paid their employee who clearly represented herself as such, *and* she issued the ticket. So their is a strong indication that a deal was indeed made.
2. However the employee ran away with *the TA's money.* No longer your at this point. His problem.
3. If he continues to threaten to cancel the ticket, let him know that if he does that you'll take him to court for the amount of whatever replacement ticket you may have to buy. Probably much more than the $2200.
4. However when/if you see the guy mellowing, be prepared to be reasonable.
David' friend John told David that his girlfriend Lydia contacted the TA, and made a deal. She will return the money to TA. (around 6K, she has spent 2K). And TA will not cancel the remaining passenger's flight and not to report to the police. But David called TA a few mins ago to check his ticket status. TA pretended that they will not get money from Lydia and still ask David to pay 2200 CAD. ( Because 2 passengers have taken half of the roundtrip flight already, there's no way to get that money back. And they know David must leave on the orginal date.) So TA wants to get some money back from David.
I wonder. Isn't the TA also part of the game? Whole thing smells.
The ticket is still valid at this moment.
If my friend David doesn't pay 2200 CAD to the TA on Tuesday, They will definitely cancel the two tickets. Air Canada may chage TA around 25% of penalty fee.
Latest news:
David' friend John told David that his girlfriend Lydia contacted the TA, and made a deal. She will return the money to TA. (around 6K, she has spent 2K). And TA will not cancel the remaining passenger's flight and not to report to the police. But David called TA a few mins ago to check his ticket status. TA pretended that they will not get money from Lydia and still ask David to pay 2200 CAD. ( Because 2 passengers have taken half of the roundtrip flight already, there's no way to get that money back. And they know David must leave on the orginal date.) So TA wants to get some money back from David.
I've always wondered about these TA's that offer really good fares to Asia. I think I'd rather take the marginal hit and stick to aircanada.com.
First of all, is this news not already spread out by this thread (and by copying the police)?
Second of all, why are you (and your "friend") at all concerned about this TA's "wonderful" reputation after what you have been through?
If the reputation is so golden, you guys should use that in your negotiation tactics at Timmie Ho.
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Need Suggestion ASAP ------------Travel Fraud (post for my friend)