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Employment Interview Issue- advice needed

Employment Interview Issue- advice needed
Published by: wktd 2009-01-08

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I interviewed with an engineering firm in the Boulder Co area (Ball Aerospace) last week. Everything went fine with the engineering folks however I ran into a problem with the HR person: On the employment form I indicated they could contact all of my previous managers, with the exception of my current manager. I thought this would not be a problem, since naturally I did not tell my current boss I am interviewing. However the Ball HR guy indicated that they must speak with him before they could forward a written offer. I told him this is a problem, and he said that they can give me a verbal offer, but the formal offer will be contingent on a recommendation from my current manager (he would ask for an assessment of my skills and contributions, not just name, rank, serial #) My current boss is a pretty good guy, but under these circumstances I am worried that he will give them little or no info (likely) or possibly give me a very bad recommendation with the hope that the offer would not materialize (less likely but possible). I know if I was the in his shoes, I would not be very cooperative.. I am on pretty good terms with the HR guy at BAll, but when I mentioned the conflict of interest, he stood his ground and said it was a requirement. The company does a lot of government contracts and they seem to be inflexible to change the rules, given my situation. Also, the job will likely require a secret security clearance, so the references are considered a very important part of the application. I dont't know how to tell my boss I am going to quit, and oh by the way I need his immediate endorcement to secure a new position. I feel this is very awkward to say the least and may compromise our relationship in the event that I do need his help later on in my career. Other than that, I was very impressed with Ball, so I hate to miss out on what looks like a very good opportunity. I would appreciate some help, especially from someone with some human resources experience. thanks. Dave

Hello CZH, yes it sounds like the articles are what I was really looking for. thanks. Dave

My experience is that managers want you to do well _for them_ and are loath to let you move on even inside the company you work for, much less for external companies. They are generally accepting of you moving on after it has been decided since they know that you need new challanges etc., but if asked for help in getting you that new position will turn surprisingly against you. That includes bosses that never seemed like they would do that. forge

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A nasty situation - not if you get the job, but if you don't If you get it, then your ex boss will be p*ssed off, but time is a healer If you don't get it, then you could find yourself collecting welfare. I am not sure whether Google rules allow it, but my recommendation is that the HR guy should be reclassified as sub human, and used for scientific research. I would also question the sense of working for a company that allows cretins like him to screw up their 'sieving system'. The cretin is making the assumption that your current boss is working for your benefit, not that of the company that employs /him/.

In my experience, most bosses and managers WANT you to do well. While they might hate to lose you as a valued team member, most people will understand that you have to make the moves that are right for you and your future. But, I don't know your boss personally. Go with your gut.

Hello Dave, Congratulations on your excellent job prospects. Getting reference checking completed can be a tricky if you don?t want your current employer to know that you?re thinking of leaving. You will want to be sure that you?re getting an offer before you announce your imminent departure. On the other hand, employers frequently have a policy that employment offers cannot be made without getting a satisfactory reference from the current employer. So how to get around this dilemma? You should tell your prospective employer that you want to inform your current employer to expect a reference call and that you will not give permission until you know that you?re a finalist for the job or have been extended a conditional offer based on getting a satisfactory reference from your current employer. Most employers understand your situation and will be willing to accommodate your needs. I?ve collected some articles that give you a perspective on this reference check problem from both sides and suggest how to handle the problem. If you are sympathetic to your prospective company?s needs they will likely be understanding about your constraints. Wishing you success for your job change. ~ czh ~ ======================================= REFERENCE CHECKS ? EMPLOYEE PERSPECTIVE ======================================= http://www.hatchmagazine.com/story.phtml?id=185 Take 2: Reference Check Choosing the right people to help you score a new job, and the right time to tell your would-be employer about them If you don?t want to use people at your current place of employment because you are nervous they will find out you?re job hunting, you have two choices during the interviewing process. First, I would suggest telling the truth by saying, ?I would like to hold back references from my current employer until after an offer is extended because I don?t want them knowing I am interviewing.? However, if a potential employer insists on having immediate references, ask them not to contact your references without your permission. If you are being asked to provide references from your current employer on an application or in email, put in writing, ?DO NOT CONTACT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION,? and potential employers should comply and understand. It is always a good sign when someone gets a reference from his current place of employment. Not only does it lend credibility, it more importantly shows that you are respected and liked in the organization. If you cannot identify someone and feel that you might be putting yourself at risk, you should communicate this to your potential employer and make sure they understand that you will be able to provide references to them as the process moves along or after an offer is made. At the same time, make sure you offer up references from previous employers -- a good company will be respectful and understanding of this. ***** Be sure to read the whole article to get a complete understanding of how to handle a request from your prospective employer to contact your current employer. ------------------------------------------------- http://jobspage.typepad.com/jobspage/2004/06/how_long_to_kee.html How long to keep job reference confidential? A: It is entirely appropriate for you to say that you do not want your current employer contacted unless you are a finalist and that, in fact, you would like to have the chance to let your employer know that a call will be coming in. Any good employer checks references and understands the delicacy with which current employers should be told that their staffers are under consideration elsewhere. No decent employer would make such a call unless the candidate had a better-than-average chance. ***** This question describes a situation that?s similar to yours. ------------------------------------------------- http://jobspress.com/jobcolumn/column022602.html Get a Job In response to your second issue, there are employers who for whatever reason do not react well when one of their current employees looks for opportunities elsewhere. Prospective employers will want to have your present employer as a reference. When candidates are unwilling to provide their current employer as a reference it sends up a red flag. However, it is OK to indicate on your resume that references are available upon request. When asked for your references explain that you would prefer not to use your current employer unless you are seriously being considered for the position you have applied for. This is not uncommon. Potential employers understand that people explore opportunities without their present employers being aware of the fact. If you were the preferred candidate in a competition then I would advise that at that stage you give permission to contact your present employer. When it comes to this time you should speak to your employer first so they are prepared for the call. ------------------------------------------------- http://www.rileyguide.com/refer.html References & Recommendations ***** This site offers a collection of articles on how to handle your references. ======================================= REFERENCE CHECKS ? EMPLOYER PERSPECTIVE ======================================= http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1073793840 Make a Job Offer and Pre-employment Checks When should I obtain a reference? You can take up references at any point in the recruitment process. However, many applicants will not want you to contact their current employer before a conditional offer is made. See our guide on recruiting and interviewing. If you make a conditional offer, you need to put in the offer letter words such as "I am pleased to offer you the post of ?????, subject to receiving satisfactory references". However, if you then withdraw the offer, you risk a claim for breach of contract. ------------------------------------------------- http://www.thechildrenshospital.org/share/employment/application.pdf Application for Employment Employment may be contingent on acceptable references from current or former employers. ***** This is an example of a job application and contains the fairly typical statement of requiring references from current employers. The prospective employer may make an offer contingent on the getting a satisfactory reference. ------------------------------------------------- http://hr.unl.edu/employment/ccfaqs.cfm#17 An applicant has checked "no" on their application form pertaining to checking references with their current employer. What should I do? In most cases, the employee does not want the current employer to know that he/she is looking for another job, which is understandable. Once you are certain this person is your top candidate, you should contact that person and tell him/her that a job offer is contingent upon reference checks with previous employers and ask permission to contact the current employer. Typically, a candidate will agree to this knowing that a job offer has been made. If they still decline to allow you to do reference checks, you may want to reconsider your decision to hire the candidate. =============== SEARCH STRATEGY =============== references from current employer employment references

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I'm with frde. He's a cretin of the worst form. I too would be wary of working for someone who made it contigent upon a job offer and, frankly, almost feel like they're trying to rule you out by doing so.

Hello dgravina-ga, I?ve found some articles that address this question from both sides, that of the recruiter/HR person/employer and that of the candidate/job seeker. Would this meet your needs? Thanks. ~ czh ~